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Soldier in Wikileaks video of 2007 Apache attack reveals what happened that day

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Re: Soldier in Wikileaks video of 2007 Apache attack reveals what happened that day

#31

Post by F_J_H »

My wife and I had a baby girl 5 weeks ago; I never imagined I could feel as much love for someone or something as I feel for her. I easily would give my life for her.

Having just experience my daughter’s birth, the soldier’s description in this article of the young girl in the shot up van and the sound of her cry cut me to the core. I can’t imagine what he is going through and the torment he must feel when that memory flashes through his mind.

The journalists will write, the commentators will comment, and the analysts will analyze. There are so many angles to consider, this point and that point. I realize that. But in the end, all I can think to do is to simply grieve for this situation and for the many others just like it that I am sure exist. I am also profoundly thankful that I was born where I was, and live where I do. Peace is truly priceless.

Re: Soldier in Wikileaks video of 2007 Apache attack reveals what happened that day

#32

Post by [deleted] »

alexgartrell wrote: post #17
techiferous wrote: post #15

[EDIT: The following comment is off-topic; therefore I wish I hadn't posted it. I didn't delete it, though, so that you could make sense of the comment responses to it. My apologies for being off-topic.] I'm about to express an unpopular opinion, so I'm expecting lots of downvotes, but at least I believe that what I'm expressing is rational and from the heart. Regarding this whole WikiLeaks incident, I felt bad for b…

I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, but you really cannot expect us to hold the lives of children in Iraq anywhere near that of Cattle. It's hardly hypocrisy to eat a burger after calling out the soldiers, as people and animals really are, according to almost every person as well as almost every religion/philosophy, on completely different planes of existence. I support the troops who did this, but I don't think…

[deleted]

Re: Soldier in Wikileaks video of 2007 Apache attack reveals what happened that day

#34

Post by caffeine »

roboneal wrote: post #5

The commentary of this soldier, and possibly others, would have provided some context to this incident. He supports the initial engagement, but criticizes the secondary attack on the van and a later firing of a Hellfire missile into a building. A context the Wikileaks' "Collateral Murder" campaign was sorely lacking.

We wouldn't ever have heard of this soldier if it weren't for the WikiLeaks video - and if they hadn't sensationalized it, nobody would ever have seen the video.

They did exactly what they were supposed to do: get the raw info out there, so that we can now all go through digesting it and picking it apart. This was the whole point in the first place.

Re: Soldier in Wikileaks video of 2007 Apache attack reveals what happened that day

#35

Post by johngalt »

techiferous wrote: post #15

[EDIT: The following comment is off-topic; therefore I wish I hadn't posted it. I didn't delete it, though, so that you could make sense of the comment responses to it. My apologies for being off-topic.] I'm about to express an unpopular opinion, so I'm expecting lots of downvotes, but at least I believe that what I'm expressing is rational and from the heart. Regarding this whole WikiLeaks incident, I felt bad for b…

You raise an interesting point about the difference between intent and outcome. Making the factory farm analogy makes it appear that you are hijacking an issue to push your own agenda.

To paraphrase you: The soldiers weren't out there with the express intent of killing civilians, but farms do have the express intent of killing animals. It's not that you equate human loss of life with animal loss of life. It's that you equate accidental loss of human life with intentional destruction of animal life.

In response I would say that we all draw that line somewhere. Humans don't tolerate unlimited cruelty to animals, even if it is beneficial to us.

Re: Soldier in Wikileaks video of 2007 Apache attack reveals what happened that day

#36

Post by roboneal »

caffeine wrote: post #34
roboneal wrote: post #5

The commentary of this soldier, and possibly others, would have provided some context to this incident. He supports the initial engagement, but criticizes the secondary attack on the van and a later firing of a Hellfire missile into a building. A context the Wikileaks' "Collateral Murder" campaign was sorely lacking.

We wouldn't ever have heard of this soldier if it weren't for the WikiLeaks video - and if they hadn't sensationalized it, nobody would ever have seen the video. They did exactly what they were supposed to do: get the raw info out there, so that we can now all go through digesting it and picking it apart. This was the whole point in the first place.

Registering a domain name called collateralmurder.com with the lede "WikiLeaks has released a classified US military video depicting the indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people" is not releasing "raw info".

Re: Soldier in Wikileaks video of 2007 Apache attack reveals what happened that day

#37

Post by baguasquirrel »

caffeine wrote: post #34
roboneal wrote: post #5

The commentary of this soldier, and possibly others, would have provided some context to this incident. He supports the initial engagement, but criticizes the secondary attack on the van and a later firing of a Hellfire missile into a building. A context the Wikileaks' "Collateral Murder" campaign was sorely lacking.

We wouldn't ever have heard of this soldier if it weren't for the WikiLeaks video - and if they hadn't sensationalized it, nobody would ever have seen the video. They did exactly what they were supposed to do: get the raw info out there, so that we can now all go through digesting it and picking it apart. This was the whole point in the first place.

I have mixed feelings about this viewpoint. It's like taking VC money before you're ready. The world may benefit from your "idea", but your lousy execution is hurting your cause.

Re: Soldier in Wikileaks video of 2007 Apache attack reveals what happened that day

#38

Post by apphacker »

pg wrote: post #8
roboneal wrote: post #5

The commentary of this soldier, and possibly others, would have provided some context to this incident. He supports the initial engagement, but criticizes the secondary attack on the van and a later firing of a Hellfire missile into a building. A context the Wikileaks' "Collateral Murder" campaign was sorely lacking.

Yes; I lost a lot of respect for Wikileaks after that. It seemed as if they'd branched out into the propaganda business. I wonder what made them change direction after so long.

It makes me a little angry really. There are so many liars and people who spin things, political blogs, "opinion shows" on television. It's just outright lies. People are not telling the truth and I find it to be one of the most disgusting realizations I've had as an adult. It really takes a brain and critical thinking to understand the world because of the sheer number of liars broadcasting their lies through every means possible. This soldier came face to face with children hurt in war, and it's the most authentic and reasoned response I've read yet with regard to this incident. Wikileaks on the other hand just became another one of the liars. It's just despicable. I hope they're proud of their new status in life.

Re: Soldier in Wikileaks video of 2007 Apache attack reveals what happened that day

#39

Post by RyanMcGreal »

pg wrote: post #8
roboneal wrote: post #5

The commentary of this soldier, and possibly others, would have provided some context to this incident. He supports the initial engagement, but criticizes the secondary attack on the van and a later firing of a Hellfire missile into a building. A context the Wikileaks' "Collateral Murder" campaign was sorely lacking.

Yes; I lost a lot of respect for Wikileaks after that. It seemed as if they'd branched out into the propaganda business. I wonder what made them change direction after so long.

>Now, as far as rules of engagement, [Iraqis] are not supposed to pick up the wounded. But they could have been easily deterred from doing what they were doing by just firing simply a few warning shots in the direction. Instead, the Apaches decided to completely obliterate everybody in the van.

It is by no means irresponsible to call what happened "collateral murder".

Re: Soldier in Wikileaks video of 2007 Apache attack reveals what happened that day

#40

Post by caffeine »

roboneal wrote: post #36
caffeine wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We wouldn't ever have heard of this soldier if it weren't for the WikiLeaks video - and if they hadn't sensationalized it, nobody would ever have seen the video. They did exactly what they were supposed to do: get the raw info out there, so that we can now all go through digesting it and picking it apart. This was the whole point in the first place.

Registering a domain name called collateralmurder.com with the lede "WikiLeaks has released a classified US military video depicting the indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people" is not releasing "raw info".

They released the video, didn't they? That's the raw info (assuming they haven't doctored it).

It is true, however, that they stamped it with their own interpretation, which is that the slaying of a dozen people was indiscriminate.

This is contradicted by the soldier in the OP who feels that some of the slaying was discriminate.

However, WikiLeaks and the soldier both agree that the man in the van was collaterally murdered - and while the children survived, it wasn't for want of murderous intent. So, the domain name is certainly justified.

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