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Google reveals statistics on government requests of its data

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Re: Google reveals statistics on government requests of its data

#31

Post by chollida1 »

ycseattle wrote: post #24
ajkirwin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I do.

Let me guess, you've never been to China and you don't know anybody who grow up in China.

Lets attack this question from another angle then.

Why do you think that China would never do anything to a Google employee if Google the company did something that China didn't like.

It has already happened in countries that are supposedly less strict than China, See the case of Italy issuing an arrest warrant for Google employee's due to a youtube video.

Re: Google reveals statistics on government requests of its data

#32

Post by ComputerGuru »

wdewind wrote: post #4

This is a bit unrelated, but does anyone know how google manages to make those three pages load without showing the refresh flash? It doesn't look like they are being loaded via AJAX so I can't figure it out...

Actually, on Chrome/OSX there is a "refresh flash" :(

Re: Google reveals statistics on government requests of its data

#33

Post by jrockway »

ycseattle wrote: post #23
tsally wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, yes? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_People%27s_... More specifically: "On 17 Oct 2009, Reuters reported that Guo Quan a professor in Nanjing Teachers University was sentenced to 10 years in jail for "inciting Subversion" of Government. There are more than 40 people in jail for criticizing the government." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_People%27s_... Threatening to provide or a…

So you think the government will go after the google employee because they are going public to support Google? Have you heard any Google Chinese employee "reportedly" supporting the employer and bashing Chinese government, even those living in US? Do you know the full story of the 40 people in jail for criticizing the government? Do you know the population in China? Do you know how many people are jailed in US becaus…

Do you know how many people are jailed in US because of Patriot Act, with no reason and no trial?

People like to bring this up, and I have a few things to say about it.

1) Just because the US does something, doesn't mean it's OK. We nuked fucking Japan. Doesn't make nuclear war OK.

2) The people held by the US are not citizens, they are soldiers picked up in war zones and held outside the US. Completely unacceptable? Yes. Violation of international law? Hopefully. But this is not what's going on in China. Normal citizens, with full rights under the law, are being openly convicted and suffering harsh penalties for speaking out against the government.

If the US government did what the Chinese government did, in this narrow category, the government officials would be the ones in prison. The US is far from perfect, but it is pretty good.

Re: Google reveals statistics on government requests of its data

#34

Post by ycseattle »

dschobel wrote: post #30
ycseattle wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me guess, you've never been to China and you don't know anybody who grow up in China.

What's your point? We live in a world where communication obviates the need for everyone to be first hand witnesses. The entire concept of news reporting is predicated on credible third parties.

My point is that majority of western news about China are biased and sensational and taken out of context. You form your opinion based on the source that is already filtered by the journalists.

You will have much better view of the whole story if you can read Chinese media, just for the full story. You might refuse to do so because they are controlled by the government. I ask you to talk to Chinese, you refuse as well because you think there is no need. How "sound" do you think your opinion will be?

Re: Google reveals statistics on government requests of its data

#35

Post by ycseattle »

ycseattle wrote: post #23
tsally wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, yes? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_People%27s_... More specifically: "On 17 Oct 2009, Reuters reported that Guo Quan a professor in Nanjing Teachers University was sentenced to 10 years in jail for "inciting Subversion" of Government. There are more than 40 people in jail for criticizing the government." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_People%27s_... Threatening to provide or a…

So you think the government will go after the google employee because they are going public to support Google? Have you heard any Google Chinese employee "reportedly" supporting the employer and bashing Chinese government, even those living in US? Do you know the full story of the 40 people in jail for criticizing the government? Do you know the population in China? Do you know how many people are jailed in US becaus…

For some reason I cannot reply your comment, maybe because my karma is too low now.

"Normal citizens, with full rights under the law, are being openly convicted and suffering harsh penalties for speaking out against the government."

I would argue, in most cases, they are not normal citizens, even though in western media, they are portrait as freedom fighter. I can even tell you how to find information to prove this point: check out the China Study program in John Hopkins University (the top one in US), and they will tell you the conclusion in political science field is the freedom fighters from the Tiananman Square in 1989 are extremists. I don't think the reporters will go out and interview those political scientists. There are other good China Study program you can get academic opinions from, including Univ. of Iowa (another top 1), UW is good as well.

I am not arguing with you that there is no human right issue in China. There are, but the problem is presented out of the context and in many cases with false information. I am only suggesting that people do more firsthand investigation and talk to Chinese for some full stories, but looks like I am getting enough down-votes now.

Re: Google reveals statistics on government requests of its data

#36

Post by krschultz »

ycseattle wrote: post #34
dschobel wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your point? We live in a world where communication obviates the need for everyone to be first hand witnesses. The entire concept of news reporting is predicated on credible third parties.

My point is that majority of western news about China are biased and sensational and taken out of context. You form your opinion based on the source that is already filtered by the journalists. You will have much better view of the whole story if you can read Chinese media, just for the full story. You might refuse to do so because they are controlled by the government. I ask you to talk to Chinese, you refuse as wel…

I have friends born & raised in China who say the exact opposite of what you are are saying.

Re: Google reveals statistics on government requests of its data

#38

Post by tsally »

ycseattle wrote: post #23
tsally wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, yes? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_People%27s_... More specifically: "On 17 Oct 2009, Reuters reported that Guo Quan a professor in Nanjing Teachers University was sentenced to 10 years in jail for "inciting Subversion" of Government. There are more than 40 people in jail for criticizing the government." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_People%27s_... Threatening to provide or a…

So you think the government will go after the google employee because they are going public to support Google? Have you heard any Google Chinese employee "reportedly" supporting the employer and bashing Chinese government, even those living in US? Do you know the full story of the 40 people in jail for criticizing the government? Do you know the population in China? Do you know how many people are jailed in US becaus…

I do know the full story actually. I'll summarize. In 2007 Guo Quan wrote a letter to the Chinese leadership asking for political reform, while peacefully founding an opposition party called the China New Democracy Party. Guo's writings were blacked out online and his name blacklisted from search. Guo was given a 10 year jail sentence in 2009 after being convicted under the charge "subversion of state power". Guo has 9.5 years of his jail sentence left.

If you have credible evidence that Guo was a violent, extremist terrorist funded by the West, I'd love to see it.

Re: Google reveals statistics on government requests of its data

#39

Post by yellowbkpk »

travisp wrote: post #26
yellowbkpk wrote: post #22

Honestly, I would be more interested in hearing about Google's requests of government data. For example, the fact that they have tax parcel information showing up on the map in my neighborhood means that they also have the amount of taxes I paid, my name, and property value. I know this is all public information, but an "ordinary citizen" would have to walk to the courthouse and pay $1/page for a printed copy of the…

>I know this is all public information, but an "ordinary citizen" would have to walk to the courthouse and pay $1/page for a printed copy of the city records and then scan it back in. This definitely isn't the case everywhere. My county (not a particularly tech savvy one) has it all available online on their own website, including full assessment information on the house, your name, amount you paid in taxes, etc.. Yo…

Yes, but to get that information in bulk as Google would, you (usually) have to print it all out.

Re: Google reveals statistics on government requests of its data

#40

Post by ErrantX »

ycseattle wrote: post #24
ajkirwin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I do.

Let me guess, you've never been to China and you don't know anybody who grow up in China.

Hello been to china multiple times. Worked with/for Chinese people - from intellectuals to the government.

Yes, I can believe something like that could happen.

It could be a way to get back at google for defying them, for example.

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