Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories • Hacker News Board

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#51

Post by eanzenberg » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 4:45 PM UTC

reverend_gonzo wrote: post #35

JDiculous wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't it feel like a waste of your talents to have society employing you full-time to make rich people richer via gambling in the financial markets rather than something more beneficial to society? I don't blame you at all (I'm sure your quality of life is magnitudes of order better, and I'd do the same in your position) and this isn't personal at all, it just pains me that our brightest graduates are working in fi…

Do you ever feel that maybe you shouldn't talk about things you don't understand? Working a prop trading firm is nowhere near "making rich people richer via gambling in the financial markets". Furthermore, the majority of software/engineering jobs out there are not doing "something more beneficial to society". How many companies are really just ad-driven, marketing-driven. Yes, it would be nice if the entire world co…

Yes!!! You will undoubtedly make a greater impact by earning as much as you can and donating it to causes later in life.

Some people think research or science is the only path to a better society but in all honesty it may just take paying people in a poor country to plant trees.

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#52

Post by eanzenberg » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 4:46 PM UTC

jawilson2 wrote: post #44

JDiculous wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't it feel like a waste of your talents to have society employing you full-time to make rich people richer via gambling in the financial markets rather than something more beneficial to society? I don't blame you at all (I'm sure your quality of life is magnitudes of order better, and I'd do the same in your position) and this isn't personal at all, it just pains me that our brightest graduates are working in fi…

I hope you aren't downvoted for this, as this is basically my exact thought process for the last few years. > make rich people richer It is prop trading, so we are making ourselves richer, technically. We do a lot of charity work and donations with schools, etc. > Doesn't it feel like a waste of your talents Absolutely. However, I also like not having to beg my toddler to eat the food in front of him because payday i…

Why are you having children in grad school or as a postdoc? And three at that..

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#53

Post by clifanatic » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 4:48 PM UTC

hprotagonist wrote: post #9

"if you pay a man a salary for doing research, he and you will want to have something to point to at the end of the year to show that the money has not been wasted. In promising work of the highest class, however, results do not come in this regular fashion, in fact years may pass without any tangible result being obtained, and the position of the paid worker would be very embarrassing and he would naturally take to…

The maxim of the software company manager: "If it takes more than an hour to do, it isn't worth doing".

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#54

Post by fsloth » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 4:48 PM UTC

jawilson2 wrote: post #44

JDiculous wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't it feel like a waste of your talents to have society employing you full-time to make rich people richer via gambling in the financial markets rather than something more beneficial to society? I don't blame you at all (I'm sure your quality of life is magnitudes of order better, and I'd do the same in your position) and this isn't personal at all, it just pains me that our brightest graduates are working in fi…

I hope you aren't downvoted for this, as this is basically my exact thought process for the last few years. > make rich people richer It is prop trading, so we are making ourselves richer, technically. We do a lot of charity work and donations with schools, etc. > Doesn't it feel like a waste of your talents Absolutely. However, I also like not having to beg my toddler to eat the food in front of him because payday i…

"Vote for people who will increase research funding"

This. You don't owe anyone anything for being smart and diligent. If you were a lone wolf and enjoying your workload there would have been nothing wrong in your previous situation if you felt it wotrthwhile yourself.

Family changes everything. Having to fight to reach ends meet is not beneficial to anyone. Raising three kids means you are responsible for their future. There is nothing more important than caring for your kids. Someone might say that you are responsible for the reduced outcomes of epileptic kids whom your research helped but that would be completely lacking in human perspective.

Humans cannot live like supermen. That's why we have organizations with long term goals and mandates to affect society wide effects. An individual can make a difference, but that individual can be anyone.

A person who claims you should have stayed in the academia can do that if they will pay your loans and provide you with a sufficient life time grant. Otherwise they are full of excrement and lack a sane perspective.

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#55

Post by fsloth » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 4:51 PM UTC

eanzenberg wrote: post #52

jawilson2 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you aren't downvoted for this, as this is basically my exact thought process for the last few years. > make rich people richer It is prop trading, so we are making ourselves richer, technically. We do a lot of charity work and donations with schools, etc. > Doesn't it feel like a waste of your talents Absolutely. However, I also like not having to beg my toddler to eat the food in front of him because payday i…

Why are you having children in grad school or as a postdoc? And three at that..

Because biology does not stop? The older the parents the riskier having kids becomes.

The last time I looked at science there was no vow of staying childless required.

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#56

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 4:51 PM UTC

eanzenberg wrote: post #52

jawilson2 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you aren't downvoted for this, as this is basically my exact thought process for the last few years. > make rich people richer It is prop trading, so we are making ourselves richer, technically. We do a lot of charity work and donations with schools, etc. > Doesn't it feel like a waste of your talents Absolutely. However, I also like not having to beg my toddler to eat the food in front of him because payday i…

Why are you having children in grad school or as a postdoc? And three at that..

[deleted]

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#57

Post by dwaltrip » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 4:54 PM UTC

eanzenberg wrote: post #52

jawilson2 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you aren't downvoted for this, as this is basically my exact thought process for the last few years. > make rich people richer It is prop trading, so we are making ourselves richer, technically. We do a lot of charity work and donations with schools, etc. > Doesn't it feel like a waste of your talents Absolutely. However, I also like not having to beg my toddler to eat the food in front of him because payday i…

Why are you having children in grad school or as a postdoc? And three at that..

Your question comes off as as self-righteous and overly critically. Why shouldn't he have kids? Clearly, he found a way to provide for them, to a higher degree than most, I would add.

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#58

Post by fsloth » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 4:55 PM UTC

whenwillitstop wrote: post #37

JDiculous wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't it feel like a waste of your talents to have society employing you full-time to make rich people richer via gambling in the financial markets rather than something more beneficial to society? I don't blame you at all (I'm sure your quality of life is magnitudes of order better, and I'd do the same in your position) and this isn't personal at all, it just pains me that our brightest graduates are working in fi…

this thought process is pure brainwashing by the left

Why is wishing for a world where it would be better to help eradicate suffering rather than work to accumulate imaginary play chips bad?

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#59

Post by Retric » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 4:55 PM UTC

hprotagonist wrote: post #48

kkylin wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no. In some fields, such as mathematics (applied & pure), one can squeak by without a grant, and many do. This has to do with the funding model in different fields -- math departments tend to have enough TA positions to support all their grad students, which lightens the pressure to secure funding. Of course the trade-off is time spent teaching lower-division courses vs actually doing research. As for tenure,…

Like i said. In the physical sciences, you can't do it. Math is not a physical science -- and you can get stunning breakthroughs without anything except a quiet room, a pad of paper, a pencil, and a trash can. (old joke: /s/math/philosophy and remove the trash can!) This is not true if you're a microbiologist.

You can do original microbiologist research on the cheap. For an extreme case, Einstein did useful theoretical physics without a lab.

Money vastly expands the scope of work you can do, but breaking new ground is often less expensive than making minor refinements to well understood areas.

PS: The real risk is will likely will go 20+ years without finding anything, but if you have tenure that should not be a problem.

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#60

Post by brokenmasonjars » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 4:56 PM UTC

chriskanan wrote: post #12

nonbel wrote: post #2

I would say "stay as far away from academic research as you possibly can" is the best advice someone can get these days. It is an awful, stressful waste of the prime of your life. From what I saw in biomed only 1/10,000 or so will end up with the time, skills, and appropriately ambitious project to allow a decent job to get done. The rest will be forced to produce BS (literally, most of it is just misinformation at t…

I strongly disagree. A PhD in the sciences or engineering is a degree in how to do research and it prepares people for careers in research or for careers that require communicating research. If a person is only satisfied with being a professor at a R1 university, then don't do a PhD, but there are a ton of other jobs that require or greatly benefit from having one, e.g, teaching universities, NASA, government labs, m…

Regarding vast majorities of PhDs not getting jobs in professorships, I think this is just true for pretty much all PhD's no matter the subject..at least anecdotally speaking. I was given an offer to teach at a community college however I declined as I just don't really like teaching. Most of my peers joined government agencies or lobbyist firms due to the nature of the field (Public Policy.)

I didn't find the PhD to be too stressful, from the jobs I left to enter education I suppose I was well adapted to stress management. That said I think it's a mix of adviser and individual's personality. I despise the work force (that is an understatement) and love learning. Part of the reason why I browse and lurk on HN as I love coming across stuff that I'm not at all oriented with. I don't think I'll become a programmer or anything..it's just I love learning even things I barely understand (e.g. Quantum anything!)