Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories • Hacker News Board

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#31

Post by JDiculous » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 3:54 PM UTC

jawilson2 wrote: post #11

I got my biomedical engineering PhD, and was a neurology professor at a top children's hospital doing brain/epilepsy research for a few years. Literally my dream job for most of my life. I left it two years ago due to many of the reasons listed, and got a job going quant/algorithmic trading at a prop firm. I have never been happier, it is a hell of of a lot less stressful, I may actually pay off my student loans befo…

Doesn't it feel like a waste of your talents to have society employing you full-time to make rich people richer via gambling in the financial markets rather than something more beneficial to society?

I don't blame you at all (I'm sure your quality of life is magnitudes of order better, and I'd do the same in your position) and this isn't personal at all, it just pains me that our brightest graduates are working in finance rather than something like curing cancer.

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#32

Post by jawilson2 » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 4:00 PM UTC

aswanson wrote: post #30

jawilson2 wrote: post #11

I got my biomedical engineering PhD, and was a neurology professor at a top children's hospital doing brain/epilepsy research for a few years. Literally my dream job for most of my life. I left it two years ago due to many of the reasons listed, and got a job going quant/algorithmic trading at a prop firm. I have never been happier, it is a hell of of a lot less stressful, I may actually pay off my student loans befo…

Did you explicitly search for a quant job or did it happen opportunistically?

Pretty organically. Several neuroscience guys who did my kind of research got into finance/trading as well.

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#33

Post by rubidium » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 4:02 PM UTC

"as a young researcher moving to the private sector, he’s had to prove himself all over again."

This is true and is worth anyone making the switch keeping in mind. Commercial companies want a commercial track record before they trust you with important decisions.

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#34

Post by Cyph0n » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 4:04 PM UTC

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #20

chriskanan wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree. A PhD in the sciences or engineering is a degree in how to do research and it prepares people for careers in research or for careers that require communicating research. If a person is only satisfied with being a professor at a R1 university, then don't do a PhD, but there are a ton of other jobs that require or greatly benefit from having one, e.g, teaching universities, NASA, government labs, m…

>A PhD is stressful and takes 5-6 years, but it can be a great experience with the correct expectations and a solid plan. The main problem is that most PhD students don't seem to think about those things nearly enough and have unreasonable expectations. Honestly, I think the main problem is mostly that PhD students are, on the one hand, full-grown adults supporting themselves, and yet are, on the other hand, paid McD…

I'm a PhD student, and I doubt I could have said it better. And depending on the field you're in, your only choice might be working as a postdoc until a suitable academic position opens up. Thankfully, there a way more options post-PhD in engineering.

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#35

Post by reverend_gonzo » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 4:05 PM UTC

JDiculous wrote: post #31

jawilson2 wrote: post #11

I got my biomedical engineering PhD, and was a neurology professor at a top children's hospital doing brain/epilepsy research for a few years. Literally my dream job for most of my life. I left it two years ago due to many of the reasons listed, and got a job going quant/algorithmic trading at a prop firm. I have never been happier, it is a hell of of a lot less stressful, I may actually pay off my student loans befo…

Doesn't it feel like a waste of your talents to have society employing you full-time to make rich people richer via gambling in the financial markets rather than something more beneficial to society? I don't blame you at all (I'm sure your quality of life is magnitudes of order better, and I'd do the same in your position) and this isn't personal at all, it just pains me that our brightest graduates are working in fi…

Do you ever feel that maybe you shouldn't talk about things you don't understand?

Working a prop trading firm is nowhere near "making rich people richer via gambling in the financial markets".

Furthermore, the majority of software/engineering jobs out there are not doing "something more beneficial to society". How many companies are really just ad-driven, marketing-driven.

Yes, it would be nice if the entire world could focus on "something like curing cancer", but other things need to get done. And the majority of people have bills to pay.

I am very similar to the OP, except I bailed halfway through the PhD, because I realized that, in academia, I will work 80 hours a week for $40k, or I can go into finance and work half that and make multiples more.

I can now donate/spend my money to causes like "curing cancer" or "making art" and let somebody who really wants to devote their life to that craft do so.

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#36

Post by esac » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 4:05 PM UTC

jawilson2 wrote: post #11

I got my biomedical engineering PhD, and was a neurology professor at a top children's hospital doing brain/epilepsy research for a few years. Literally my dream job for most of my life. I left it two years ago due to many of the reasons listed, and got a job going quant/algorithmic trading at a prop firm. I have never been happier, it is a hell of of a lot less stressful, I may actually pay off my student loans befo…

I think i'm about to follow your academical steps, can i ask you a few questions by mail? (the one i found is for an (ex?) UC professor)

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#37

Post by whenwillitstop » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 4:06 PM UTC

JDiculous wrote: post #31

jawilson2 wrote: post #11

I got my biomedical engineering PhD, and was a neurology professor at a top children's hospital doing brain/epilepsy research for a few years. Literally my dream job for most of my life. I left it two years ago due to many of the reasons listed, and got a job going quant/algorithmic trading at a prop firm. I have never been happier, it is a hell of of a lot less stressful, I may actually pay off my student loans befo…

Doesn't it feel like a waste of your talents to have society employing you full-time to make rich people richer via gambling in the financial markets rather than something more beneficial to society? I don't blame you at all (I'm sure your quality of life is magnitudes of order better, and I'd do the same in your position) and this isn't personal at all, it just pains me that our brightest graduates are working in fi…

this thought process is pure brainwashing by the left

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#38

Post by Pica_soO » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 4:09 PM UTC

hprotagonist wrote: post #9

"if you pay a man a salary for doing research, he and you will want to have something to point to at the end of the year to show that the money has not been wasted. In promising work of the highest class, however, results do not come in this regular fashion, in fact years may pass without any tangible result being obtained, and the position of the paid worker would be very embarrassing and he would naturally take to…

Proofing something wrong for the first time is not valued as it should be- and blunt honesty is neither. The honesty of "the results where inconclusive" is still murderous for a scientific career in some fields.

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#39

Post by doctorsher » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 4:09 PM UTC

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #20

chriskanan wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree. A PhD in the sciences or engineering is a degree in how to do research and it prepares people for careers in research or for careers that require communicating research. If a person is only satisfied with being a professor at a R1 university, then don't do a PhD, but there are a ton of other jobs that require or greatly benefit from having one, e.g, teaching universities, NASA, government labs, m…

>A PhD is stressful and takes 5-6 years, but it can be a great experience with the correct expectations and a solid plan. The main problem is that most PhD students don't seem to think about those things nearly enough and have unreasonable expectations. Honestly, I think the main problem is mostly that PhD students are, on the one hand, full-grown adults supporting themselves, and yet are, on the other hand, paid McD…

Damn. As a 4th year PhD student, this hit me hard. You've worded my feelings on academia better than I ever could.

Edit: I see Cyph0n has beaten me by a few minutes. Oh well.

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#40

Post by hasbroslasher » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 4:10 PM UTC

I'm curious why this field hasn't been "privatized" to some degree. Why doesn't division of labor apply? Why not have scientists go off and do their research and rely on a team that is skilled at hoarding grants or publishing works from raw data? I imagine it's probably due to some institutional barriers (e.g. you can't get funding outside of a university context).

I imagine the reason is as always - our leaders are two-faced in their support of science. They claim that it's a national issue but fail to make professorship even remotely competitive in the hard sciences. This kind of thing raises the most righteous indignation in me. We have a nation of know-nothing politicians claiming "We need more kids in STEM!" without doing anything to address the quagmire academia has become, largely because of over-competition for resources.

For all of this myopia around STEM it's largely a misnomer. No one in industry cares about climate science, geology, theoretical physics, abstract algebra, topology, combinatorics or number theory - at least not in the dollars and cents view. They may care insofar as there's a cash benefit, but not to the degree that they care about building better oil pipelines, faster algorithms and more efficient fabrics. So what we end up with is a world where Nike, Facebook and Exxon Mobil attract the best talent - a world where PhD's are basically forced to quit their jobs in order to go make money for the bourgeois.