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Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

nytimes.com

281–290 of 382 posts

Re: Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might pay, if they got to chose their provider freely like they can in Sweden, where they build open access networks where any ISP can provide service.

I bet you could build it in to the sale price of reselling a home. IE this improvement must be made to make it distinct in the market.

I would happily pay 100-200k if I could capitalize it on a 30y 0-3% mortgage to bring fiber from a carrier neutral facility (say, the Westin Building in Seattle) to a farm. It's about $10k/km for aerial fiber and $50k/km for buried fiber in most places (far higher in a city, but the distances are shorter.)

There's probably a reasonable market doing this at $10-20k/house. There's clearly a market for multi-family dwellings like condos/apartment buildings (webpass, condointernet, etc. have shown), but maybe the next step will be neighborhoods pre-wired with fiber to some kind of switchbox with your choice of carrier coming in.

Re: Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cingular is descendant of the original AT&T. http://crooksandliars.com/files/vfs/2011/03/AT&T.jpg

Indeed. And there's the whole SBC part to the story as well. But the entity that was AT&T in the early 2000's still went belly up and was bought out largely for the logo and those three letters and a single ampersand :-)

The Entity that WAS AT&T became

Southwestern Bell - became AT&T inc by buying Ameritech, AT&T Corp. Pacific Telesis, BellSouth (all Baby Bells)

Bell Atlantic/NYNEX - merged to become Verizon buying GTE, MCI Worldcom along the way

US West - merged with Qwest, acquired and became CenturyLink

"the original AT&T" is those Baby Bells not just the empty shell that became AT&T Corp. (aka ATT Long Distance)

The takeaway is that the ORIGINAL AT&T split into 3 companies and swallowed GTE, MCI, Worldcom, and Qwest in the process. It ended up being a consolidation. 4 of the 7 baby bells are back together operating under the AT&T name, that's over half the old company.

Re: Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

#283

The Google Fiber rollout in my neighborhood has been a debacle from the start. They walked around and put up door tags -- really really big ones saying, "Google Fiber is coming!" and immediately after that the 0 crime neighborhood I live in had a slew of break ins. Anyone who didn't remove this massive door tag was an easy target, the crooks knew who was home and who wasn't. Then like a week later... they put the exa…

Are you in KC? I am in OP.

Austin, and I get that it's the construction firm and not Google, but yeah... it not good UX. Ha.

Re: Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

#284
post #201

They should have known it's a long term investment and ROI happens only when certain scale is reached. Why change their mind now?

I think there are two big reasons:

The market changed. When they launched Fiber, they're announcement was reminiscent of GMail when it launched. Back then, getting a 15-30MB free web mailbox was normal and Google announced a start at 2GB. Memory may not serve me perfectly, but I believe when they launched Fiber, there wasn't a single ISP offering residential service at 1Gbps and very few at even 100Mbps. I live in a city that is neither Fiber available or even on the list of future Fiber cities, but I can get multi-gig service for the price that I think the 100Mbps service was offered when Fiber launched. Most of this happened because of Google Fiber -- these companies were not terribly interested in increasing their capacity and service before, but knowing that a huge company like Google, who realistically had the funds to do a roll out, was potentially going to invade their monopoly territories was enough to get the market to move. This also, unfortunately, reduced the need for them to do it. Market-wise, they'd have to fight harder for customers since their service may not be so much faster/better/cheaper to get people to endure the hassle of switching.

The reality of what the market is was discovered. They had hoped they'd be able to do the roll out cheaper, with the involvement of local regulatory bodies itching to have their cities added to the program and paving over regulations that historically made doing a roll out like this very expensive, time consuming and difficult. The incumbents, who already had networks and had to deal with and work through those same regulations cried foul, started suing and made this all more costly and difficult. Back to point #1, with other ISPs offering service at a similar speed and at a far reduced price from when Fiber launched, this took some of the motivation to pave over those regulations away from the regulatory bodies. And this is all without the reality that many of those elected officials who make the laws that caused these problems have their re-election paid for by the AT&Ts, Comcasts and Verizons to a far greater extent than they do Google, so they're even less motivated to help them out.

Re: Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because a monopoly isn't inherently bad, if regulated properly. My monopoly water, gas, and electric providers do just fine; all highly reliably (and either a small or no profit right is granted). A monopoly provider is always bad for the consumer. (Occasionally, it is less bad for the consumer than any feasible alternative, but it is always a sign that the consumer is receiving the "short end" of the stick)[0]. Fo…

> A monopoly is pretty much inherently bad; it just so happens that sometimes it's unavoidable. But, as OP said, there's no reason to sanction a monopoly provider for an industry (or part of an industry) in which it is avoidable. But it is clearly not avoidable . If one of the largest tech companies in the world (with enormous profits and cash reserves) cannot afford to deploy fiber in major cities, it is clear that…

> But it is clearly not avoidable. If one of the largest tech companies in the world (with enormous profits and cash reserves) cannot afford to deploy fiber in major cities, it is clear that the private sector cannot reliably and affordably provide this service on the scale required.

First of all, the fact that one company tries something and fails doesn't mean that the entire problem is intractable. It means that that particular attempt didn't work. Other variants might. Pretty much every single successful startup you read about is doing something that was previously attempted unsuccessfully or with less success.

And to that point, Google's model wasn't fundamentally different from the model used by existing ISPs[0] - they were doing almost the exact same thing (deploying {fiber, cable} from Tier 1 networks to the last mile) and structured their pricing in the same way. Their main goal was to force competition, not to dramatically change the fundamental business model of ISPs.

For example, one proposal that has been thrown around is the unbundling of the last mile, in which the lines are deployed and maintained by one entity but leased out to multiple private ISPs who actually service the customers[1]. There are other possibilities as well that haven't been tested yet either. Google failed at being a "better traditional ISP", but that doesn't mean that:

1) anyone who tries to be a "better traditional ISP" is doomed to fail, or 2) Google (or someone else) can't be successful as an ISP by using a different, non-traditional model altogether

[0] with one exception: they sought (and received) carve-out agreements

[1] Incidentally, this is what's already done with wireless networks (MVNOs) and in some places (like NYC) for electricity supply (supply only, not the wires).

Re: Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

#286

The Google Fiber rollout in my neighborhood has been a debacle from the start. They walked around and put up door tags -- really really big ones saying, "Google Fiber is coming!" and immediately after that the 0 crime neighborhood I live in had a slew of break ins. Anyone who didn't remove this massive door tag was an easy target, the crooks knew who was home and who wasn't. Then like a week later... they put the exa…

Google really underestimated how hard it was going to be to run cable underground in Austin, with it's limestone ("Austin Chalk") often just inches below the grass & shrubbery.

Re: Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

#287
post #214
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google also seems to just give up on a lot of its products Yes remember when the mantra was "don't be evil"? They also just let products linger w/o any or many improvements. Google voice is an example. Text to speech is in many cases totally worthless, even with clear speaking speakers.

I think “Don’t be evil” is way to amenable to mean “Don’t do what I personally don’t like”. In this concrete example, I don’t think “Google cancelled a product” can be equated with “Google is evil”.

Well sure but it says "I don't care if you invested time and energy thinking this product would be around. Even though we make billions when it doesn't suit our business purpose we will make a decision that isn't in your interest but ours". And it's not like companies don't do this but they generally don't do it in the way that I have seen google do it with such callousness.

Re: Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

#288

GF has been tearing up our neighborhood this week and last laying cable (I'm in Chapel Hill). AT&T did the same about 6 months back. I was holding out for Google, but this makes me think even when they get it up and running, the support will be nonexistent. So maybe better to go with the devil we know (we already have AT&T U-Verse, just not gigabit). At least they lasted long enough to force AT&T's hand...

I'd still switch to Google Fiber. As someone who spent over a year dealing with what AT&T calls "support"[0], concerns that Google could be any worse would be minimal for me.

In all likelihood, if they do completely abandon Fiber, rather than finding another way to provide the service that doesn't require digging, they'll sell it off to another ISP (I think TFA mentioned CenturyLink). Their DVR was (is?) based on SageTV's product, which I ran at home and found to be excellent (the extent to which it differs from their original product may change my mind on that assertion, though).

[0] I had a problem with my DSL service at my family's home up north that required sending out a tech on 13 different occasions, which required me to drive two hours up north to meet him. I went through four different DSL modems (none of which were broken, but they were basically throwing darts at a wall with a blindfold on). They'd show up, find nothing wrong (on one occasion they offered to replace my interior wiring and decided against it when they discovered I ripped it all out and replaced it with one proper cable run using better cable than they'd install ... and the readings from their test equipment indicated the wire was very clean). They never actually fixed the problem as a result of a service call, it just went away at some point last year.

Re: Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

#289
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say "citizens of the US" you're talking about a continent that would take roughly five days to cross at highway speed, driving ten hours a day. You may as well say "citizens of Europe." If you haven't done that drive, by the way, you should. It will add some perspective to these comparisons. A more reasonable comparison would be between Sweden (population 9.5m) and the state I live in, New Jersey (population…

Sometimes people struggle to find something good to say about Sweden, the rape capital of the world. Glad we can find a good comparison - New Jersey...less rape...more, faster internet

The issue of the unfairness of this comment towards an entire country aside:

> Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

#290
post #284
post #201

They should have known it's a long term investment and ROI happens only when certain scale is reached. Why change their mind now?

I think there are two big reasons: The market changed. When they launched Fiber, they're announcement was reminiscent of GMail when it launched. Back then, getting a 15-30MB free web mailbox was normal and Google announced a start at 2GB. Memory may not serve me perfectly, but I believe when they launched Fiber, there wasn't a single ISP offering residential service at 1Gbps and very few at even 100Mbps. I live in a…

But now that GF is slowing down, incumbents will fall back into their monopolistic slumber. Without threat of competition, they won't be motivated to spread their upgrades wider. So in a sense, yes, spreading more Google Fiber makes monopolists compete, which makes spreading it harder, but that was the whole point for Google, wasn't it? So if they back down now, their goals will be compromised.
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