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Instapainting – From $4k in debt to $32k/mo in passive revenue with no employees

indiehackers.com

61–70 of 277 posts

Re: Instapainting – From $4k in debt to $32k/mo in passive revenue with no employees

#61

Do you think people know they are paying for cheap Chinese labor when they purchase? If not, do you think they would care? When I read something like,"100% free-hand painted onto a canvas by a master artist," my impression isn't, "we outsource the painting to cheap Chinese labor." My impression is clearly wrong. I suspect others have this impression though. I think the concept is cool, but I'm not sure people would b…

I think you're coming to this with preconceived notions. Not all artists registered are "cheap Chinese labor," and that label is also disparaging to the artists that do happen to be in China, and are Chinese, including myself, as I was born in China. I wouldn't like it if you called Instapainting a piece of work produced by cheap Chinese labor (which it could very well be described since I only made about 36k salary in the first year).

That being said, for this product category (photo to painting), nearly all sellers on Etsy, Ebay, or other sites, are dominated by Chinese sellers. We don't produce the product, rather these sellers are selling through us.

> I think the concept is cool, but I'm not sure people would be so willing to pay if they knew some desperate artist in China was getting paid below minimum wage to create the artwork. I guess what I'm saying is you are selling the idea of a premium service at a great price—too good to be true—and it is, because it's not true.

I can't guarantee all the wages the artists are paid, as many sellers on the site are simply reselling or doling orders out to subcontractors (the artists). However from the ones I've visited, they are paid well above minimum wage, and in fact above the average salary in China.

Most people do know that the paintings come from China, and I'm actually one of the only sites that publicly reveals this (I released an article about the painters in China on the company blog). But as you can also understand, putting big text on our home page that says "Get paintings from cheap Chinese labor" would sound condescending, not be 100% true (since we're a marketplace behind the scenes), and probably negatively affect sales as well.

Re: Instapainting – From $4k in debt to $32k/mo in passive revenue with no employees

#63
post #14

Nothing like exploiting people to make a living. Maybe the people doing the actual paintings should get that $32/mo? Gross US imperialism at its finest. So embarrassed to be from this country. FYI: Exploiting artists isn't some kind of disruptive innovation. Ever wonder why the arts are much less likely to adopt open source licensing? People like this jerk. Oh wait, I forgot. They aren't real artists because they hap…

I wonder if your view would be shared by those artists in china. Do you think they would like to lose their job? Are they actually being exploited, or do they also have a far lower cost of living? Are their wages on par with the other opportunities that they have access to? Do you feel that they'd be able to demand US wages if they went at it on their own?

Re: Instapainting – From $4k in debt to $32k/mo in passive revenue with no employees

#64

Do you think people know they are paying for cheap Chinese labor when they purchase? If not, do you think they would care? When I read something like,"100% free-hand painted onto a canvas by a master artist," my impression isn't, "we outsource the painting to cheap Chinese labor." My impression is clearly wrong. I suspect others have this impression though. I think the concept is cool, but I'm not sure people would b…

I think you're coming to this with preconceived notions. Not all artists registered are "cheap Chinese labor," and that label is also disparaging to the artists that do happen to be in China, and are Chinese, including myself, as I was born in China. I wouldn't like it if you called Instapainting a piece of work produced by cheap Chinese labor (which it could very well be described since I only made about 36k salary…

You are totally correct. The Western notion of China and Chinese labor is totally wrong.

Still, do you think people would care if they knew? I ask because I would have totally bought this had I stumbled onto it yesterday not knowing what I know now. I would have bought this for a friend and never thought twice about it. After reading this post I definitely would not purchase. Irrational? Maybe.

Edit: I see your response above. Thanks. I may actually purchase. Just want to think about it. :)

Re: Instapainting – From $4k in debt to $32k/mo in passive revenue with no employees

#65

Do you think people know they are paying for cheap Chinese labor when they purchase? If not, do you think they would care? When I read something like,"100% free-hand painted onto a canvas by a master artist," my impression isn't, "we outsource the painting to cheap Chinese labor." My impression is clearly wrong. I suspect others have this impression though. I think the concept is cool, but I'm not sure people would b…

Being a master artist and being cheap aren't mutually exclusive.

It sounds like location arbitrage: China has a lower cost of living than the US. Not to mention that even a master Chinese artist would have a tough time getting a green card.

But it looks like instapainting is basically a middle-man which could easily be replaced by a Chinese website (so long as they hire a good translator).

Re: Instapainting – From $4k in debt to $32k/mo in passive revenue with no employees

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're coming to this with preconceived notions. Not all artists registered are "cheap Chinese labor," and that label is also disparaging to the artists that do happen to be in China, and are Chinese, including myself, as I was born in China. I wouldn't like it if you called Instapainting a piece of work produced by cheap Chinese labor (which it could very well be described since I only made about 36k salary…

You are totally correct. The Western notion of China and Chinese labor is totally wrong. Still, do you think people would care if they knew? I ask because I would have totally bought this had I stumbled onto it yesterday not knowing what I know now. I would have bought this for a friend and never thought twice about it. After reading this post I definitely would not purchase. Irrational? Maybe. Edit: I see your respo…

I got a lot of publicity from an article about the Chinese painters that I published on Medium, so I think many people do know. Some people take issue with it, understandably, but also for the wrong reasons. The article is also linked at the bottom of the homepage, albeit it is a bit hidden.

You probably take issue with it because you think you are exploiting the workers, when in reality they want you to buy from them and witholding your purchase hurts them economically. The bulk of the money you spend goes to the artists, after all. Otherwise China wouldn't enact such protectionist trade policies that encourage mass exports.

If you take issue with it because you want to encourage domestic economy growth, then avoiding imported Chinese paintings would be proper, however not all our sellers are Chinese. We will soon be adding filters to discriminate by country of origin.

Re: Instapainting – From $4k in debt to $32k/mo in passive revenue with no employees

#67

I can answer any questions, whether about how to get a great Christmas present, or questions about the article!

I'm interested in your thoughts on how you came about the idea. I don't want to be disparaging but do you consider it "lucky" that you had a friend point you towards selling art reproductions online? Were you already thinking of similar ideas? There's that gulf between ideas and execution, and you clearly executed well. Given that you had previous ideas that you weren't able to successfully execute on (relative to Instapainting), I'm also curious of your thoughts comparing those experiences? Also, congrats on the success and thanks for sharing some of the inside details.

Re: Instapainting – From $4k in debt to $32k/mo in passive revenue with no employees

#69
post #65

Do you think people know they are paying for cheap Chinese labor when they purchase? If not, do you think they would care? When I read something like,"100% free-hand painted onto a canvas by a master artist," my impression isn't, "we outsource the painting to cheap Chinese labor." My impression is clearly wrong. I suspect others have this impression though. I think the concept is cool, but I'm not sure people would b…

Being a master artist and being cheap aren't mutually exclusive. It sounds like location arbitrage: China has a lower cost of living than the US. Not to mention that even a master Chinese artist would have a tough time getting a green card. But it looks like instapainting is basically a middle-man which could easily be replaced by a Chinese website (so long as they hire a good translator).

It's also protectionist Chinese policies, weak manipulated Chinese RMB. China promotes exports, and buys USD to weaken the RMB, which is why so much manual labor funnels through China and why it's cheaper to buy from China. You'll see that that the whole product category of photo replica paintings are dominated by mostly Chinese sellers on Ebay, etsy, and among our other competitors.

Actually, Instapainting's rise is due to my replacing the Chinese middlemen with software (disclaimer: not all artists on our site are Chinese), which is even cheaper!

Re: Instapainting – From $4k in debt to $32k/mo in passive revenue with no employees

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're coming to this with preconceived notions. Not all artists registered are "cheap Chinese labor," and that label is also disparaging to the artists that do happen to be in China, and are Chinese, including myself, as I was born in China. I wouldn't like it if you called Instapainting a piece of work produced by cheap Chinese labor (which it could very well be described since I only made about 36k salary…

You are totally correct. The Western notion of China and Chinese labor is totally wrong. Still, do you think people would care if they knew? I ask because I would have totally bought this had I stumbled onto it yesterday not knowing what I know now. I would have bought this for a friend and never thought twice about it. After reading this post I definitely would not purchase. Irrational? Maybe. Edit: I see your respo…

"I'm biased against Chinese labor. Do you think anyone is biased against Chinese labor?"
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