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Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

nytimes.com

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Re: Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

#91

Post by E6300 »

mikeash wrote: post #54
staticelf wrote: post #12

That sucks for citizens of the US. I think the Swedish (Nordic?) model for bringing internet connectivity to it's citizens is superior. The municipalities own (most of) the networks and all the fiber cables, letting companies use them for a small(ish) fee. These companies later sell it to customers. This help people to get the best deals and ensure that the networks are continually upgraded. For example, I have 250/1…

The trouble is that in the US, this sort of thing is seen as government unfairly competing with private industry. Of course, we just get private industry setting up monopolies or duopolies instead, often with the help of local laws prohibiting competition. This is worse, but somehow more acceptable to the American electorate.

I didn't know that! What a stupid position to have. Do they also think that the abundance of air competes unfairly with air salesmen?

Re: Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

#92

Post by oblio »

xigency wrote: post #83
markbnj wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say "citizens of the US" you're talking about a continent that would take roughly five days to cross at highway speed, driving ten hours a day. You may as well say "citizens of Europe." If you haven't done that drive, by the way, you should. It will add some perspective to these comparisons. A more reasonable comparison would be between Sweden (population 9.5m) and the state I live in, New Jersey (population…

> A more reasonable comparison would be between Sweden and ... New Jersey Except that Sweden is 20 times larger than New Jersey in area. The continental US is 18 times larger than Sweden, so it is actually a better (if terrible) comparison geographically. Maybe in your argument you should compare Sweden with Michigan, Arizona, New Mexico, California, Nevada, or Minnesota instead of New Jersey, which each have at leas…

Sweden is actually one of the best European examples since its population density and GDP are both lower than the US ones (yet still comparable).

Re: Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

#93

Post by csours »

josh2600 wrote: post #81

I wrote about this elsewhere and am pasting my thoughts here as I think they're relevant to this community: 1) Google Fiber is dead. Long Live Google ISP. Google cannot afford to lay fiber in the ground because it's a long game and Google doesn't really want to play the long game (they just want to put pressure on competitors so they can move more bits along the wires, generating more searches and more streams with w…

Do you have to literally dig up the street? If so, why?

Re: Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

#94

Post by ec109685 »

ilyanep wrote: post #27
SEJeff wrote: post #13

Well google announced they were exploring a fiber rollout in Chicago. Now both AT&T along with Time Warner Cable have 1G service throughout parts of the city. Alternatively, one can look at this not as a failure, but as a success. The point of Google fiber was to force carriers to get faster internet to everyone. It appears that it has been working. This benefits google directly as their properties such as Youtube ca…

Really I'm mostly bitter because right now I'm paying $57/mo for 12 Mbps U-Verse in Mountain View. I could pay $70/mo to switch to either 50 Mbps Sonic (currently considering) or 100 Mbps Xfinity (really don't want to deal with Comcast customer service). Aside from Sonic, these all come with a data cap. I was really looking forward to giving Google $70/mo for 1 Gbps or whatever they were offering, and not having a da…

I have had Comcast for 7 years, dealt with their customer service <5 times.

Re: Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

#95

Post by curt15 »

SEJeff wrote: post #13

Well google announced they were exploring a fiber rollout in Chicago. Now both AT&T along with Time Warner Cable have 1G service throughout parts of the city. Alternatively, one can look at this not as a failure, but as a success. The point of Google fiber was to force carriers to get faster internet to everyone. It appears that it has been working. This benefits google directly as their properties such as Youtube ca…

But will AT&T's 1GB throughput run into an artificial data cap? The faster the connection, the easier it is for the customer to overshoot any given data limit and get charged overage fees.

Re: Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

#96

Post by rayiner »

markbnj wrote: post #58
staticelf wrote: post #12

That sucks for citizens of the US. I think the Swedish (Nordic?) model for bringing internet connectivity to it's citizens is superior. The municipalities own (most of) the networks and all the fiber cables, letting companies use them for a small(ish) fee. These companies later sell it to customers. This help people to get the best deals and ensure that the networks are continually upgraded. For example, I have 250/1…

When you say "citizens of the US" you're talking about a continent that would take roughly five days to cross at highway speed, driving ten hours a day. You may as well say "citizens of Europe." If you haven't done that drive, by the way, you should. It will add some perspective to these comparisons. A more reasonable comparison would be between Sweden (population 9.5m) and the state I live in, New Jersey (population…

I wonder how much of the difference in perception is due to very different urban/suburban/rural dynamics in the U.S. versus Europe. I just bought a house near the Chesapeake Bay in Maryland (a dense east-coast state). My neighborhood just got public sewer/water in the last couple of years, but we've got fiber! Meanwhile, you can't get fiber in Baltimore, the state's largest city.

Re: Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

#97

Post by jgrowl »

Forgive me if I'm incorrect... The way I understand it is that they are halting planning in cities that they marked as potential locations, but that does not mean they are discontinuing the roll out and service in cities that are already in progress.

For example in Nashville, they have been trying to roll out fiber in Nashville for over a year now but have only been able to install on less than a dozen utility poles so far.

This is because of the rules that prevented anyone other than the owner of the existing lines to move anything. This meant that if Google wanted to add lines to a pole with existing AT&T and Comcast lines, it would require both companies to move their own lines independently of each other in coordination. This means roads would have to be closed 3 separate times for each vendor. Nashville recently passed the One Touch Make Ready ordinance that allows approved vendors to do all of the work at the same time.

Now both AT&T and Comcast are suing the city: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/10/comcast-sues-nash...

I hope that google stills continues to deploy to cities that are already in progress. It took community effort to get the ordinance passed and subjects them a lawsuit. It would be a real letdown.

Re: Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

#98

Post by digi_owl »

staticelf wrote: post #12

That sucks for citizens of the US. I think the Swedish (Nordic?) model for bringing internet connectivity to it's citizens is superior. The municipalities own (most of) the networks and all the fiber cables, letting companies use them for a small(ish) fee. These companies later sell it to customers. This help people to get the best deals and ensure that the networks are continually upgraded. For example, I have 250/1…

Norway is a mix of things. In more urban areas, its the cable TV provider that rules (often a subsidiary of the former government telecom monopoly). And out in rural areas it has been mostly DSL. But recently local power companies have started deploying fiber, many of them partnering with a single company for the ISP side of things.

Re: Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

#99

Post by BatFastard »

selestify wrote: post #90
prplhaz4 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my internet connection was maintained in a similar manner to the street I live on, I would be switching to satellite. The US has a severe problem with its ability to maintain infrastructure - which I think is closely related to the ability to scale mentioned in another comment. For reference, Sweden is around the same size as California, with 1/4th the population.

So why doesn't California have as good internet as Sweden?

Because the Swedish officials don't take money from the cable companies.

Re: Google Fiber Cutting Jobs and Halting Rollout

#100

Post by jonathankoren »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #47
c0nducktr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not skip the middle step and just have the municipalities provide it to the customers directly?

> Why not skip the middle step and just have the municipalities provide it to the customers directly? Because monopolies are wasteful and horrible at things like customer service. The fiber in the ground is a natural monopoly. Connecting that fiber to the rest of the world isn't. You don't want the monopoly to extend one inch more than it has to, regardless of whether the natural monopoly is municipal or Comcast.

And if municipal ISPs weren't more efficient than the corporate conglomerates you'd have a point, but the fact is that municipal ISPs have been found to provide cheaper and higher quality service than than the corporate ISPs, quite simply because there isn't a profit motive beyond breaking even. This is why Comcast, Time-Warner and the rest are pressuring state legislatures to ban municipal ISPs.[0]

[0] http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/09/muni-i...

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