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An apology...

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Re: An apology...

#141

Post by Glide »

tomwans wrote: post #58

Gizmodo's attitude is making me sick. All of these articles have such a "haha, gotcha!" attitude towards Apple (and especially Gray) for no reason at all. Apple is secretive about their products, so what? You got the prototype. Take the photos and report on it. There's no reason to divulge all this information about Gray. Apple knew who lost the phone already, since they were able to wipe it remotely. Their snide rem…

I would worry far more about the editors that allow this behavior and the higher ups that gave the ok on publishing the guy's name.

Re: An apology...

#142

Post by Robin_Message »

maxharris wrote: post #91
ryanisinallofus wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His job was to make stuff at Apple, their job is to report stuff about Apple. No moral outrage please.

When their "job" comes into conflict with state laws concerning theft, moral outrage is appropriate. Gizmodo traded in property they knew was stolen (according to California state law), and that alone is enough for anyone to be angry with them. The way they treated Gray is awful and immoral (if not illegal). I won't visit their site again, and I don't think anyone else should, either (morally speaking).

I have to disagree with this conflation of laws and morals. Journalists certainly break laws; and this may have happened in this case; but I don't see how that makes them immoral. For example, the theft and sale to a newspaper of UK MPs expenses details was illegal but not widely considered immoral.

I'd like to quote from [1] before continuing:

"Last year, an employee at Foxconn, the Taiwanese company that is one of Apple's biggest suppliers, committed suicide after being accused of stealing a prototype for the iPhone.

Sun Danyong, 25, was a university graduate working in the logistics department when the prototype went missing. An investigation revealed that the factory's security staff had beaten him, and he subsequently jumped to his death from the 12th floor of his apartment building."

If you want to talk about the legality and morality of Apple trying its damnedest to keep trade secrets, then what is your opinion of Apple using a supplier which beats an employee suspected of theft/loss and pushes him to suicide?

Because, (morally speaking) that is far more reprehensible than a journalist getting a scoop by acquiring a trade secret through theft.

As to the way Gizmodo treated Gary, well, it sucks that he lost it but that's life, Apple should accept that in-field testing will lead to some losses. Gizmodo couldn't have hidden his identity since presumably only one iPhone 4G has been lost.

[1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/7330986/Apple-ad...

Re: An apology...

#143

Post by jonknee »

jacquesm wrote: post #117
wisty wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a slight upside - Apple might not let him go because they don't want to wear any flack from the media. Still, that would put him in a pretty difficult position. Having the perception that you were kept on just to avoid PR problems isn't an ideal situation. I'd rather be sacked quietly and look for a job elsewhere, or be quietly kept on; whatever the boss though best. I'm sure that the reporters justify it to…

If Apple lets their prototypes out of the house in conditions that are 'real life' then they have to live with the fact that in 'real life' phones get lost and get stolen. What bugs me is that I can't imagine that every phone that is lost or stolen makes it's way to gizmodo, so how on earth did they find out that that phone was a prototype? Or did they really have a bunch of 'misses' before this 'hit'. Apple should d…

> What bugs me is that I can't imagine that every phone that is lost or stolen makes it's way to gizmodo, so how on earth did they find out that that phone was a prototype? Or did they really have a bunch of 'misses' before this 'hit'.

It looked different. iPhones only come in a couple designs, it's not hard to tell when it's different.

Re: An apology...

#144

Post by protomyth »

confuzatron wrote: post #111
reitzensteinm wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but you're completely wrong about this. Anyone searching his name for the next 50 years will find this amongst the top 10 unless he ends up with the web presence of someone like Leo Laporte or Joel Spolsky (or someone with the same name does). The question is not whether hiring managers will find out about this - they will - it's whether they'll care.

All the chap did was accidentally leave his phone in a bar. Presumably he had it out for dog-fooding style testing. Gray Whoever (I've forgotten already) is hardly a name that will live in infamy. Unless the next time we see him is in a grainy beheading video featuring Steve Jobs wielding a large machete. All this 'OMG STOLEN' drama is totally over the top - I think some people are just looking for an angle at which…

If an HR department can google his name, then it will close career paths to him.

Re: An apology...

#145

Post by protomyth »

stretchwithme wrote: post #89
boredguy8 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where have you applied lately, that doesn't Google your name?

And if you do it enough times, you realize everybody's got something to be unproud of. "Forgot my cellphone" has got be way down on the list of engineering failures.

Not for a high tech company on the cutting edge who would test their machines in public. If he worked for someone else and was now applying at Apple, would he be hired?

Re: An apology...

#146

Post by jonknee »

razerbeans wrote: post #14

Seeing the name-drop of the Apple engineer on Gizmodo made my jaw drop. I couldn't believe that they would do such a thing. This no doubt casts a shadow on his career and life. It's a reckless attempt by what appears to be a subpar site to make itself somewhat legitimate. In this respect, they've failed miserably.

It may have saved his job since it sounds like it really was an honest mistake and now if he's fired everyone will be on his side. There's no way Steve can fire him without looking like a heartless bastard. Google would hire him in a second and get a huge PR win.

Re: An apology...

#147

Post by protomyth »

hyperbovine wrote: post #67
Frazzydee wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple puts in a lot of effort to maintain an air of secrecy. It's part of their pubic image. AFAIK this is the first time there has been a leak this big. It is a big deal to Apple.

It is a big deal to Apple. Inside the RDF, you are probably correct. Back here in reality, I would just like to take the opportunity to shout out, _BIG FUCKING DEAL_. They're working on a new version of the arguably most successful consumer electronic in history. WHO KNEW? It uses all the latest technology. WOW! It looks... SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT! Stop the presses and notify the President!! I am tired of Apple acting tre…

How much money in PR do you have to spend to make up for the "disappointing" events because everyone already saw the phone. This is not some little matter of secrecy, this is big money. It also affects the media that covers Apple events. They lose money because they don't get the page views.

Re: An apology...

#148

Post by matrix »

pg wrote: post #61
mahmud wrote: post #40

I will celebrate the day when HN front-page is not filled with Apple drama and gossip.

The reason the frontpage has the stories it does is because they're the ones users have voted for. If you want different stories, the solution starts with you: try voting for some. You haven't voted on any of the stories currently on the frontpage.

A possible idea for improving that: Maybe it might make sense to allow users above a certain reputation threshold to vote stories down? Or even just limit story voting to people above a certain threshold.

What good newspapers, periodicals, etc have in common is very good editors that set the overall tone. The crowd, on the other hand tends to go for the sensational, populist and mediocre consensus. I appreciate all your efforts to evolve HN to try and avoid that though.

Re: An apology...

#149

Post by lallysingh »

gte910h wrote: post #13
khelloworld wrote: post #8

Gizmodo not only ruined it for Apple and the engineer, it also ruined the fun for Apple fans like myself anxiously looking forward to the rumored-filled days just before the next device unveiling in June. :-/

Wait, you like accidentally buying stuff that's about to be replaced with a better model?

All the discussion, rumoring, and conjecturing make the platform fun. A few guys take it seriously, but I think most of us just like to play in it for fun.

Re: An apology...

#150

Post by kgermino »

statictype wrote: post #97
agranig wrote: post #76

you are aware of the fact that 'accidantely' leaking secret information is and has always been part of Steve's game, aren't you?

No. I'm pretty sure Apple doesn't do very many planned leaks and certainly not to Gizmodo.

Apple has been known to do planned leaks when it suited them. (The iPad leak during CES is an excellent example) but its usually just letting a friendly reporter know a few details from the specs, not 'accidentally' leaving a phone at a bar or anything like that.
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