Live data from Hacker News

An apology...

furbo.org

81–90 of 194 posts

Re: An apology...

#81
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply put once a news source starts omitting facts based on what they think is relevant that's the beginning of the end. News sources should report the facts in as complete a fashion as they are capable of doing. To do otherwise is to open the door to abuse. What's to stop a reporter from leaving a friend out of a story while reporting his coworkers were involved in some malfeasance? In that case the coworkers then…

So news articles about sexual abuse should include the name, age and address of the victim? After all, who is to say it is not relevant to the story.

There are laws against reporting those names for that very reason. Because there is an ethical obligation by reporters to report all the facts and we as society have decided reporting those details isn't acceptable so we restrict them from reporting those details. Just as we do with the names of children.

But the very existence of those laws proves the point I was making which is that reporters should be bound to report all details. Not the other way around

Re: An apology...

#82
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply put once a news source starts omitting facts based on what they think is relevant that's the beginning of the end. News sources should report the facts in as complete a fashion as they are capable of doing. To do otherwise is to open the door to abuse. What's to stop a reporter from leaving a friend out of a story while reporting his coworkers were involved in some malfeasance? In that case the coworkers then…

Omitting irrelevant facts is the whole point of news publishers in the informaton age. You don't pay them to find information, you pay them to filter information.

The mistake you make is in assuming your judgement of what is irrelevant is sacrosanct. Again I give an example...

Let's say a Conservative reporter is in Iraq and for whatever reason he's the only reporter allowed there. Let's say he finds out that there were no WMD but says to himself "That's irrelevant because President Bush thought there were WMD so there's no reason for me to report on that". Would that be right?

Of course not. But the reason we have rules against reporters using their judgement to omit details is because it leads to situations like the above.

Now back to this situation. I'm not saying this is true I'm just putting forth a possibility. That said what if this is a person who serially does things like this? What if he could be linked to several leaks over the past few years? Wouldn't his name be relevant then? But how could you know if that was the case if reporters decided to omit his name every time he was involved? That's just one example of how this one fact that you think is irrelevant could in fact be very relevant

Re: An apology...

#83
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I've never misplaced something that could cost my company thousands of dollars and I'd like to believe I wouldn't be foolish enough to even bring something like that into a bar with me.

I did not ask if you ever misplaced a top secret prototype device, and quite honestly I'm a little appalled that you feel you would be above making "foolish" mistakes. I asked if you ever misplaced anything valuable or anything that mattered to you. A wallet could be something valuable, or your keys. Most valuable, however, would be your sense of compassion, which right now you have clearly misplaced.

There's a difference between what is valuable to me and what is valuable to someone else (like my company). Yes I've misplaced things that are valuable to me but when I did I only hurt myself. I did not have an obligation to someone else that I did not fulfill.

This engineer had an obligation to his company that he disregarded and his only excuse is "I was drunk and thoughtless" (which really isn't an excuse at all).

Again, I'm not advocating he be fired because I think people should have the right to make mistakes but I find it appalling that the attitude in this comment thread has been that being drunk makes it ok to be derelict in your duties.

Re: An apology...

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you even read this before you quoted it?

Jeez, talk about the pot and the kettle. From a five second skim, the harm minimisation part seems pretty appropriate: Harm limitation principle ...This principle of limitation means that some weight needs to be given to the negative consequences of full disclosure, creating a practical and ethical dilemma. The Society of Professional Journalists' code of ethics offers the following advice, which is representative of…

Show compassion does not mean omit facts. In fact, the article you quote says just the opposite.

Beyond that this is not a tragedy. This is someone dealing with the consequences of their actions.

Finally publishing photos off someone's social networking site is not invading their privacy.

Again I point out that you didn't read the whole article you quoted. You zeroed in on the points that you think support your argument and ignored the rest. Maybe you should take more than five seconds and read the whole article

Re: An apology...

#85
I'm not sure Mr. Powell is paying attention to the continued coverage. If he is, I'd like to offer a couple of words of encouragement.

I think Mr. Powell is the only one in this story who stands on firm moral ground. He made a simple, honest mistake. All indicators point that he behaved courageously, presumably coming forward and admitting the device is missing since Apple shut it down remotely the next day. Yes, Apple management will be upset and may decide to let Mr. Powell go, but he has fulfilled his professional obligations to Apple and shown considerable courage in doing so. Future employers hiring intelligently should realize that their employers will make costly mistakes and someone who has demonstrated he openly takes responsibility and is willing to work to fix the damage they've done should be a valuable asset.

The actions of the person who found the phone are morally dubious. I don't see how you could possibly justify "playing around" with a phone you have just found while presumably waiting to return it to its owner. If this person is interested in defending their actions I'd like some proof that they did not shy away from contact with Mr. Powell (I assume he tried calling his own phone when he found out it was missing) and that they did in fact call Apple trying to get through to someone. I would also like an argument justifying their disclosure of Mr. Powell's personal details to Gizmodo when handing over the device. Something in the whole story seems a little fishy.

Gizmodo has clearly overstepped their bounds by publishing personal details about Mr. Powell. It is clear they are getting traffic and therefore benefitting from doing so at the expense of Mr. Powell. It is also clear that this is mere gossip and therefore of no journalistic value.

Apple is a large, public technology company. Applying moral or ethical principles in their case is nonsensical. What I can say for sure is that the leaked content may not have as huge of an adverse effect as perhaps anticipated. I already know a number of people who are committed to buying the new device when it comes out. I know, Steve Jobs doesn't get to announce it and blow everyone's minds at the keynote, but apart from that there may not be much harm.

Last thing. Let's have a little bit of perspective here. We're talking about a phone. And yet we have a person possibly stealing personal property, violating someone's privacy by looking at content on the phone, selling the device and the personal information to a media outlet, who then publishes both publicly, undermining Mr. Powell's career. All of this so that we get to find out about a new phone a little bit earlier. I haven't fleshed out a lot of the ethical details in my head yet, but this seems like a lot of tech geek douchebaggery.

Re: An apology...

#86
post #33

The engineer in question is a good friend of several of us here at HN. We sincerely appreciate the support he's being shown here and elsewhere around the internet. So there is no doubt: Gray is one of the smartest engineers I've ever had the pleasure of knowing, and I'm sure he feels terrible about this. Although I'm sure this is going to be one of the worst weeks of his life, he will land on his feet, wherever that…

His job was to make stuff at Apple, their job is to report stuff about Apple. No moral outrage please.

Re: An apology...

#87
post #6

I actually did the same. I rarely get disgusted enough to resort to censorship, but Denton's craven, smug pageview whoring is just begging for the ban hammer. Also, putting comments down for the day reminded me that Gawker Media is nothing without comments.

If you say to your enemy, "I won't help you say nasty things about me, and I won't permit you to say them on my property", that is completely within your rights. That is not censorship.

It's only censorship if the government is doing it, and that's something we cannot allow - it's a violation of individual rights if the government prevents you from speaking your mind to a friend or using your property to communicate with many people.

Re: An apology...

#88
post #85

I'm not sure Mr. Powell is paying attention to the continued coverage. If he is, I'd like to offer a couple of words of encouragement. I think Mr. Powell is the only one in this story who stands on firm moral ground. He made a simple, honest mistake. All indicators point that he behaved courageously, presumably coming forward and admitting the device is missing since Apple shut it down remotely the next day. Yes, App…

Gizmodo overstepped no bounds. They are allowed free speech and compared to most reporting these days their story was actually accurate.

The ONLY person at fault here is the guy who found the phone and didn't call Apple.

Re: An apology...

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This no doubt casts a shadow on his career and life. I think you're overestimating the impact this has. People generally don't remember a name in an article they read at some website some time ago. Secondly, the number of people actually reading this is quite small. For instance, suppose someone lost a Nokia prototype in the same way and the engineer later applied to Apple. How large is the chance that the responsibl…

Where have you applied lately, that doesn't Google your name?

And if you do it enough times, you realize everybody's got something to be unproud of.

"Forgot my cellphone" has got be way down on the list of engineering failures.

Re: An apology...

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple puts in a lot of effort to maintain an air of secrecy. It's part of their pubic image. AFAIK this is the first time there has been a leak this big. It is a big deal to Apple.

It is a big deal to Apple. Inside the RDF, you are probably correct. Back here in reality, I would just like to take the opportunity to shout out, _BIG FUCKING DEAL_. They're working on a new version of the arguably most successful consumer electronic in history. WHO KNEW? It uses all the latest technology. WOW! It looks... SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT! Stop the presses and notify the President!! I am tired of Apple acting tre…

This. Thank you.
Post reply on HN