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Iceland, a land of Vikings, braces for a Pirate Party takeover

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Re: Iceland, a land of Vikings, braces for a Pirate Party takeover

#141

Post by flukus »

tptacek wrote: post #69
jacquesm wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing ever changes here because everything has to go through many iterations of compromises if it even wants to leave the negotiation table. That's a feature, not a bug. > I wish we had a system like the USA. You are missing the wood for the trees. The last thing you want in a country is an effective government that can push through it's majority agenda at the expense of the minority. That's why EU countries are…

Is Europe ahead of the US on LGBT rights? Marriage equality is the law of the land in all 50 states here. The first amendment of our Constitution separates church and state, for whatever that's worth. You might want to suggest that to Ireland. ;)

>Is Europe ahead of the US on LGBT rights? Marriage equality is the law of the land in all 50 states here.

Europe got their through politics, US through courts. How long do you think that would take if it was left up to politicians?

Re: Iceland, a land of Vikings, braces for a Pirate Party takeover

#142

Post by DocTomoe »

tingol wrote: post #51
DocTomoe wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are mistaking "in accordance with my personal preferences and political views" with intelligence.

I don't think there's anything personal or political about corrupt people getting punished for their crimes instead of being bailed out without taking any individual responsibility.

See, I do believe from what I have read that the icelandic banker's convictions were mostly a political move to keep the very small (and thus very easily rally-able) Icelandic population happy after their savings (which always do carry a risk - that's why you get interest) were lost in the icesave collapse.

Just like them essentially declaring bankrupcy and not paying their debts afterwards was.

And I do not think criminal cases should be influenced about what result is politically preferable.

Re: Iceland, a land of Vikings, braces for a Pirate Party takeover

#143

Post by jamnik »

sctb wrote: post #132
jamnik wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you're not talking about Russia where Snowden lives

We've banned this account for posting only inflammatory political comments.

Thanks you SJW! Remember, if trump wins this November this will be in huge part due to absolutely obvious and blatant cultural marxists destroying first amendment rights like you. You see all we want to see is you hypocrites crying mama. Can't wait!

Re: Iceland, a land of Vikings, braces for a Pirate Party takeover

#144

Post by tremon »

tdb7893 wrote: post #135
tremon wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is party discipline undemocratic? Why is party discipline undemocratic? Can you explain why you think it's not? I think party discipline is simply autoritarianism applied within a political party. If anything, it advertises to me that said party doesn't really believe in democratic principles.

You can still pick which parties to support or even create a new party and that choice seems to me to be the foundation of representative democracy.

The "foundation of representative democracy" is to have a representative in the decision making process (-cracy) for every part of the populace (demos). Political parties are not essential to that premise. Representatives that can have their voice heard are.

Re: Iceland, a land of Vikings, braces for a Pirate Party takeover

#145

Post by tdb7893 »

tremon wrote: post #144
tdb7893 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still pick which parties to support or even create a new party and that choice seems to me to be the foundation of representative democracy.

The "foundation of representative democracy" is to have a representative in the decision making process (-cracy) for every part of the populace (demos). Political parties are not essential to that premise. Representatives that can have their voice heard are.

Sorry for being unclear, but it's having a choice that is essential, not parties themselves. It is a representative democracy, you just choose a party instead of a person but it's the exact same concept.

Re: Iceland, a land of Vikings, braces for a Pirate Party takeover

#146

Post by gpvos »

tremon wrote: post #121
gpvos wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When that happened, there were fewer residents, so it was more like one party per half million.

Ah, I thought the GP was referring to when the LPF split into individual fractions.

If I count correctly, the 2003-2006 Tweede Kamer had 9 party fractions in it at the start and had 5 split-off groups, so there were 14 fractions in the end. Maybe there were more somewhere in the meantime?

But of course I don't know what xenobioticants was thinking about.

Re: Iceland, a land of Vikings, braces for a Pirate Party takeover

#147

Post by Pica_soO »

kahrkunne wrote: post #36
aedron wrote: post #25

This kind of change could only happen in Europe, due to the multi-party system. In America, as has so often been proven, the system is rigged to prevent alternatives to the established parties. I honestly believe this proves the superiority of this system, over the American one. The great advantage of democracy is that it provides an avenue for peaceful change, or, if you are more cynical, the appearance of such. Thi…

Dutch here. We need at least 5 parties to make a government in the next election. Nothing ever changes here because everything has to go through many iterations of compromises if it even wants to leave the negotiation table. I wish we had a system like the USA.

Has a democratic version been tried that fluctuates between duopole and multipole party systems?

Re: Iceland, a land of Vikings, braces for a Pirate Party takeover

#148

Post by bobwaycott »

kriro wrote: post #89
rvense wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you put it like that, it doesn't really sound like that many parties...

To me it actually sounds like more. That would mean about 324 parties in the USA.

I like the sound of that.

Re: Iceland, a land of Vikings, braces for a Pirate Party takeover

#149

Post by kikoreis »

nomercy400 wrote: post #71

"They know what they’re against. But it’s difficult to find out what they’re really for." Well, reading what the Pirate Party wants to be, it makes sense they don't have things to be 'for'. They want to give the people more room to decide. The pirates just want to give the people that space. They don't care about all the topics traditional politics discuss and promote. They just want the people have have more of a sa…

That's a high-risk approach, because big referendums have a lot of downsides. They are expensive, polarizing and put a lot of responsibility on the average citizen, who is expected to both understand and balance correctly the tradeoffs on the table. In some societies that is really too much to ask, but I don't know Iceland well enough.

Experiments are important too, though. I would be watching really closely what happens if the there is a real tilt towards the Pirates.

Re: Iceland, a land of Vikings, braces for a Pirate Party takeover

#150

Post by HalfwayToDice »

herrkanin wrote: post #35
HalfwayToDice wrote: post #33

The Pirate Party are not going to win the election. They are radical extremists. Well this is just my opinion, but lets check back next week after the vote.

Why should we trust your opinion more than the polls?

You shouldn't, but they only got 15%, and that outcome was obvious. The newspaper articles were absurd wish fulfilment.
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