Poor kids who do things right don't do better than rich kids who do things wrong • Hacker News Board

Re: Poor kids who do things right don't do better than rich kids who do things wrong

#11

Post by figers » Mon, Oct 24, 2016, 7:33 PM UTC

dozzie wrote: post #3

dudul wrote: post #2

It sucks, but what's the solution? Because let's face it, the primary purpose of "being rich" is to provide for one's family, at least from my point of view. If I work my ass off it's to make sure I can help my kids do better than I did. What's the point of being "wealthy" if it's not to help your kids have a better life than your own? I don't want to sound insensitive. All these studies about kids born in poverty an…

> If I work my ass off it's to make sure I can help my kids do better than I did. > What's the point of being "wealthy" if [...] You confuse "being wealthy" with "working one's ass off".

They don't have to be mutually exclusive...

Re: Poor kids who do things right don't do better than rich kids who do things wrong

#12

Post by harryh » Mon, Oct 24, 2016, 7:33 PM UTC

adamnemecek wrote: post #7

dudul wrote: post #2

It sucks, but what's the solution? Because let's face it, the primary purpose of "being rich" is to provide for one's family, at least from my point of view. If I work my ass off it's to make sure I can help my kids do better than I did. What's the point of being "wealthy" if it's not to help your kids have a better life than your own? I don't want to sound insensitive. All these studies about kids born in poverty an…

Fix the fucking educational system and stop wasting people's time.

The educational system is a scapegoat for far bigger and more entrenched problems.

Re: Poor kids who do things right don't do better than rich kids who do things wrong

#13

Post by dleslie » Mon, Oct 24, 2016, 7:34 PM UTC

dudul wrote: post #2

It sucks, but what's the solution? Because let's face it, the primary purpose of "being rich" is to provide for one's family, at least from my point of view. If I work my ass off it's to make sure I can help my kids do better than I did. What's the point of being "wealthy" if it's not to help your kids have a better life than your own? I don't want to sound insensitive. All these studies about kids born in poverty an…

The solution is to diminish the income gap.

If we believe that few employers are happy to carry employees who provide a net productivity deficit, then on the face of it we cannot assume that those who are impoverished and employed are not meaningfully productive. The question we ought to ask ourselves is how much disparity is acceptable to allow across the incomes of productive individuals; or more bluntly, why do the executive and management typically earn several orders of magnitude more than the producers? Is it necessary to encourage upward motivation, or is it exploitative and predatory?

Re: Poor kids who do things right don't do better than rich kids who do things wrong

#14

Post by rgbrenner » Mon, Oct 24, 2016, 7:34 PM UTC

oldmanjay wrote: post #4

dozzie wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I work my ass off it's to make sure I can help my kids do better than I did. > What's the point of being "wealthy" if [...] You confuse "being wealthy" with "working one's ass off".

Since that isn't even close to what the OP said it's pretty clear you're dedicated to the narrative of the evil rich. Keep plugging! It'll stick soon

where did the parent say anything about "evil rich"? At the moment, your post is the only one on the page along those lines.. so it seems to be a narrative you're injecting.

Edit: also, whether or not someone worked for their money, says nothing about good or evil. I'm sure we can all point out people in both camps.

Re: Poor kids who do things right don't do better than rich kids who do things wrong

#15

Post by dforrestwilson1 » Mon, Oct 24, 2016, 7:36 PM UTC

dudul wrote: post #2

It sucks, but what's the solution? Because let's face it, the primary purpose of "being rich" is to provide for one's family, at least from my point of view. If I work my ass off it's to make sure I can help my kids do better than I did. What's the point of being "wealthy" if it's not to help your kids have a better life than your own? I don't want to sound insensitive. All these studies about kids born in poverty an…

Not sure why you were down-voted. It would seem to be a valid point that offspring are a motivation for achieving success and wealth.

Re: Poor kids who do things right don't do better than rich kids who do things wrong

#16

Post by lordCarbonFiber » Mon, Oct 24, 2016, 7:37 PM UTC

I feel like the provided chart doesn't quite match up well with the presented narrative. Granted it's hard to evaluate since they neglect to define what the bar for rich and poor is, however, assuming by rich and poor they mean born in the 1st and 5th quartiles by income, the chart would imply over 80% of 1st quartile dropouts fall at least one income quartile and corresponding graduating college (note there's no stratification as to what kind of college, ie whether predatory for profit schools are included, breakdowns by tier of university, etc) results in income mobility (measured by an increase of one or more income quintiles) for over 80% of 5th quartile students.

Granted, I think a better state would be closer to 100% of college graduates are able to live comfortable lives, but I think the data doesn't point to the doom and gloom of insurmountable educational advantage the author seems to want to present.

Re: Poor kids who do things right don't do better than rich kids who do things wrong

#17

Post by Florin_Andrei » Mon, Oct 24, 2016, 7:37 PM UTC

dleslie wrote: post #13

dudul wrote: post #2

It sucks, but what's the solution? Because let's face it, the primary purpose of "being rich" is to provide for one's family, at least from my point of view. If I work my ass off it's to make sure I can help my kids do better than I did. What's the point of being "wealthy" if it's not to help your kids have a better life than your own? I don't want to sound insensitive. All these studies about kids born in poverty an…

The solution is to diminish the income gap. If we believe that few employers are happy to carry employees who provide a net productivity deficit, then on the face of it we cannot assume that those who are impoverished and employed are not meaningfully productive. The question we ought to ask ourselves is how much disparity is acceptable to allow across the incomes of productive individuals; or more bluntly, why do th…

Anything that increases social mobility would be good.

America is doing quite poorly in terms of social mobility, compared to other top-tier countries.

Re: Poor kids who do things right don't do better than rich kids who do things wrong

#18

Post by rm_-rf_slash » Mon, Oct 24, 2016, 7:37 PM UTC

dudul wrote: post #2

It sucks, but what's the solution? Because let's face it, the primary purpose of "being rich" is to provide for one's family, at least from my point of view. If I work my ass off it's to make sure I can help my kids do better than I did. What's the point of being "wealthy" if it's not to help your kids have a better life than your own? I don't want to sound insensitive. All these studies about kids born in poverty an…

If you worked very hard to become rich in your life (and presumably secure a future for your children), then congratulations, your hard work paid off.

If your children squander your fortune and squabble over their inheritance, how you feel about that is entirely up to you.

Warren Buffet said he would donate the vast majority of his wealth to charity upon his death. When asked about inherentance for his children, he said that a couple hundred thousand each would be enough.

Parting thought: if your children waste the fortune that you worked so hard to build, that says just as much about you as it does your children.

But this is all hypothetical. I'm sure you have fine kids.

Re: Poor kids who do things right don't do better than rich kids who do things wrong

#19

Post by adamnemecek » Mon, Oct 24, 2016, 7:37 PM UTC

dudul wrote: post #10

adamnemecek wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fix the fucking educational system and stop wasting people's time.

How would you do that?

Fundamentally I think that we have to get rid of the concept of a teacher and replace it with person who helps you when you get stuck. I think that fundamentally, the school should just teach you to read as soon as possible and from there on it should just give you things to read. You should also have much more freedom in what you want to study, e.g. if you want to check out idk, optical engineering in high school (even if for the reason that it sounds cool), the high school should be able to somehow assemble a path for you.

I think that just about everyone has dreams that can be solved with more knowledge and skill. The path to achieving these isn't always very clear though. The school should be the organization that gives you that clarity and supports you.

Re: Poor kids who do things right don't do better than rich kids who do things wrong

#20

Post by pfraze » Mon, Oct 24, 2016, 7:37 PM UTC

dudul wrote: post #2

It sucks, but what's the solution? Because let's face it, the primary purpose of "being rich" is to provide for one's family, at least from my point of view. If I work my ass off it's to make sure I can help my kids do better than I did. What's the point of being "wealthy" if it's not to help your kids have a better life than your own? I don't want to sound insensitive. All these studies about kids born in poverty an…

I generally agree, but we benefit from realizing everyone's potential, and this study seems to indicate we're not doing so now.

There's also a political angle; Meritocracy is an important justification for American capitalism. If you can't make the argument that the system is beneficial to the whole, then there's going to be support to overturn the system.