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Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

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Re: Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

#141

Post by protomyth »

the_watcher wrote: post #90
protomyth wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take a look back, Steve Ballmer was responsible for a lot of the success of Microsoft. He mostly got hate because people hated Microsoft. I'm don't think Ballmer's list of accomplishments at Microsoft is fully appreciated particularly compared to the good press Tim Cook as enjoyed.

No, Ballmer got hate because Microsoft's consumer products consistently flopped. The stuff that those of us who flipped to Apple while he was in charge used (Zune, Windows Vista, original Surface, Windows Phone) were consistently underwhelming. However, Ballmer was simply inarguably an effective CEO from the perspective of investors. He grew the enterprise business consistently (which has a huge amount of value for l…

> No, Ballmer got hate because Microsoft's consumer products consistently flopped.

Doesn't that ignore the XBox and the dominance of Windows in the consumer market?

Re: Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

#142

Post by douche »

cm2187 wrote: post #105
the_watcher wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My opinion is that the failure of Microsoft has less to do with Ballmer than with the absence of a Steve Jobs. This argument would be a lot stronger had Microsoft not begun making such major improvements as soon as Ballmer was replaced with Nadella.

I am not sure it has. Surface isn't exactly an ipad killer. And the more I use Windows 10, the more I miss Windows 7.

I just bought a refurbished EliteBook that came with Windows 7, after using Windows 10 since it came out. The rose-tinted glasses are real, and 10 is indeed > 7. I need to find my 10 Enterprise MSDN disk.

Re: Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

#143

Post by theptip »

aetherson wrote: post #100
the_watcher wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know what Amazon does for AI, I haven't seen anything convincing from them Alexa is easily the best voice assistant, at least in terms of actually understanding what is being asked. When it can't help, it's far more often because it can't find a result or because Amazon/the app builder hasn't built Alexa into the product yet (still drives me crazy that asking Alexa to play an HBO show only works with HBO Go…

I don't know if Alexa is the "best" voice assistant, but up until Google Home ships (has it yet?) it's the "only" voice assistant in the place that voice assistants actually matter. It'll be interesting to see if Google overtakes the Echo. I'm not a fan of Google's "no apps" approach.

Here's Tim O'Reilly making the case that Alexa is in a different class (from a UX perspective) than Google or Apple's AI assistants:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-would-alexa-do-tim-o-rei...

I think the point about Alexa's great interactivity coming from having to build for a device with no screen is a strong one. Though I think that the best AI-driven UIs in the future will have to bridge the gap and be able to display content usefully on a screen (or many screens), while also preserving that concept of knowing what the current context is (i.e. "skip" means "skip the track" if I have music playing, but might refer to a different app if I have youtube running).

Re: Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

#144

Post by roymurdock »

bad_user wrote: post #12

The article is short on details why he thinks Tim Cook is like Steve Ballmer, except for saying that Apple is slowly missing the boat on AI. I don't know what Amazon does for AI, I haven't seen anything convincing from them, but I'll trust the author that they are working on it. However it's tough to beat Google in this space, because AI and machine learning is what Google has focused on since their beginnings . Goog…

> I don't know what Amazon does for AI

The Alexa/echo ecosystem.

> However it's tough to beat Google in this space...they also have a lot of data on users...

Agreed, the amount of data is key. This is where Apple will struggle when looking to upgrade Siri/AI capabilities in coming years.

> Tim Cook's Apple is making a stand for privacy and security, which is actually quite rare to witness in this day and age. He's a man with principles and for this I appreciate him a lot

Privacy and security (and, secondarily, a full physical keyboard) was Blackberry's key differentiator before they lost to the touchscreen-enabled iPhone app ecosystem.

Now that competitor's offerings are becoming more powerful (hardware) and refined (software), and the smartphone market is close to saturation in advanced economies, Apple needs a non-technical differentiator. Security/privacy is the perfect talking point.

I have no reason to believe that Tim Cook is acting in the interest of users ("a man with principles") while marketing Apple products as private and secure; rather, he is acting in the interest of shareholders, as he should be given that he is the CEO of a public company. Happily, user and shareholder interests seem to be mostly aligned at the moment - Apple can sell more phones if people trust the brand.

If it makes more financial sense in the future to ditch user privacy (in order to get closer with Facebook & Microsoft so as to compete with Google), he probably will. But don't expect to hear an announcement about it until the info is leaked. It's impossible to truly discern the character of a public company's CEO because they are always acting, and tons of things happen within their organizations without their knowledge.

Re: Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

#145

Post by protomyth »

josu wrote: post #56
protomyth wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take a look back, Steve Ballmer was responsible for a lot of the success of Microsoft. He mostly got hate because people hated Microsoft. I'm don't think Ballmer's list of accomplishments at Microsoft is fully appreciated particularly compared to the good press Tim Cook as enjoyed.

>He mostly got hate because people hated Microsoft. I believe that the hypothesis of the article is that people hated Microsoft because of Ballmer.

Mr. Gates was in charge when Microsoft did quite a bit of their hated activities. It was Gates as CEO who rigged it so all of us buying a PC to run a different OS had to pay for Windows.

Re: Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

#146

Post by yuhong »

pjmlp wrote: post #52
zimpenfish wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your frequent reminded that people have said "They will coast for a while on their dominant mobile market share but eventually the stagnation and lack of new products will catch up to them" about Apple -every- -single- -year- since about 2007. And yet, they endure.

I remember a different Apple around 1994 - 96, almost getting ready to close doors, if it hadn't been bought by NeXT (which is what actually happened).

I was for a while thinking of the case where Apple bought NeXT, but Gil Amelio and later Ellen Hancock stayed as CEO. While PC margins was declining, I was thinking that Apple could mostly focus on the higher-end PC and workstation markets. I wonder how this would have compared to Tim Cook.

Re: Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

#147

Post by jasonsync »

Apple does appear to be losing focus.

For example:

Apple has devalued the PRO moniker under Tim Cook's guidance.

By trying to ram it's Mobile OS into a PRO product (iPad PRO). I mean the UI grid is still 4 x 5 on a massive 12 inch display. Nobody noticed it feels more like Fisher Price? And the iPad "PRO" apps are all dumbed down, feature limited versions of actual pro desktop apps.

Then, by stagnating a once well regarded PRO product, the Macbook PRO, they further eroded the PRO moniker. Did they delay significant updates to the Macbook PRO to see if existing users would eventually give the iPad PRO a try first? Or did they simply want to drive Desktop OS marketshare back to Windows?

And what about the slim Macbook with a fancy new port (USB-C) that's still not available on any other Macbook, even 1.5+ years later!!!? Yes, that's exactly how you devalue the PRO moniker. By releasing new, cutting edge tech on your consumer products first. And then wait years before adding that tech to your PRO line (I know, the new Macbook PRO is rumoured to ONLY have USB-C ... sigh).

Don't even get started on the Mac PRO. Ya, that ridiculously underpowered, overpriced PRO computer that you forgot about, that looks like a NYC subway trash can. https://www.google.com/search?q=nyc+subway+trash+can&tbm=isc... Talk about an awesome PRO design.

Talk about losing focus.

Eerily similar to later stage Ballmer Microsoft.

Re: Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

#148

Post by chongli »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #123
toyg wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a big product line There's your mistake - next to i-devices, the Mac is simply not a big product line. It's something they need to have around for ecosystem developers, and something of a brand exercise in other sectors. Nothing more.

True, but why is that so? Apple wants the high end consumer. Gamers are high end consumers, and yet Apple doesn't sell them high end desktop or laptop machines with gaming capable GPUs. Also no VR/AR gear. This seems like quite a strange omission from their product line.

Gamers are high end consumers

They really aren't. PC gamers hang out on Reddit and other forums trading info about how to build a PC from commodity parts in order to get the absolute best price/performance ratio. It's not hard at all to put together a machine for less than a thousand dollars that would be competitive with the machines Apple sells for three thousand.

There's no margin for Apple in this space.

Re: Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

#149

Post by WayneBro »

bad_user wrote: post #12

The article is short on details why he thinks Tim Cook is like Steve Ballmer, except for saying that Apple is slowly missing the boat on AI. I don't know what Amazon does for AI, I haven't seen anything convincing from them, but I'll trust the author that they are working on it. However it's tough to beat Google in this space, because AI and machine learning is what Google has focused on since their beginnings . Goog…

> ...he's nothing like Steve Ballmer...

Your response was also short on details with regards to your major point, quoted above.

Meanwhile, here are the points from the article. Like Ballmer, Tim Cook:

- is an executor, not a visionary.

- doubled revenue while also doubling profit for his company.

- announced very few new products.

- has the same kinds of challenges (facing disruption).

- lacks passion for the product.

- takes things personally.

Re: Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

#150

Post by usaphp »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #123
toyg wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a big product line There's your mistake - next to i-devices, the Mac is simply not a big product line. It's something they need to have around for ecosystem developers, and something of a brand exercise in other sectors. Nothing more.

True, but why is that so? Apple wants the high end consumer. Gamers are high end consumers, and yet Apple doesn't sell them high end desktop or laptop machines with gaming capable GPUs. Also no VR/AR gear. This seems like quite a strange omission from their product line.

Gamers market is a completely different animal. The hate towards Apple products in that market is spread across it, even if Apple releases a great and powerful computer for gaming - most of the high end gamers would not buy it just because they have an anti mac mentality. On top of that high end gamers want customizability when building their PC, Apple can not possibly support many different model and brands of motherboards, processors, ram etc...
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