Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

steveblank.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 307 posts

Re: Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

#131

Post by xenadu02 »

daxelrod wrote: post #62
chapium wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same could have been said about the ipod as well. It has little to do with computing and was marketed as a lifestyle product. Apple is notorious for being second to the market with its simplified vision of emerging tech.

Agreed. I'm having trouble thinking of any product category where Apple was actually first to market.

> Agreed. I'm having trouble thinking of any product category where Apple was actually first to market

The dirty little secret is that the first company to market with a new product category almost never succeeds. No one really knows what the market wants or what will make the whole thing come together and take off. Most of the time the discovery never even makes it to market because no one can figure out how to make a real product with it. Execution is as important as innovation.

The iPod was transformative because it was paired with a music store.

The iPhone was transformative because it was a pocket computer that happened to make phone calls and it broke the carrier's stranglehold on hardware and software.

The Mac was the first widespread easy to use GUI. Yes, Xerox had the Alto. So what? They had no idea what to do with it and it was never terribly successful.

When you take an ultra-reductionist approach you can dismiss anything. Dropbox wasn't the first one to sync files over a network. Oh Uber, it's just a fancy way to order a taxi. Airbnb: just a fancy version of classified ads. Instacart? I can pay anyone to go buy my groceries, rich people have been doing that for years. Stripe? We already have a million payment gateways!

Re: Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

#132

Post by rayiner »

the_watcher wrote: post #109
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have they really, though? I mean, sure, they've got the ole' hype train's pistons pumping and the fanboys woohooing, but they still have produced a version of Windows that is clunky and controversial. They open sourced some stuff, but that's only because they are pushing for the clouds, not some actual change in philosophy. Microsoft's changes are all skin deep.

Yes, they have. I know there is a lot of institutional hatred for Microsoft from the tech sector that will take a while to overcome. But you'll be able to call changes "skin deep" forever if you choose to explain anything positive away as marketing only.

They haven't managed to release a flagship Windows phone for more than a year, Windows 10 is still a disaster, and Surface Book's execution was incredibly botched.

Yeah, there is some good stuff for developers, but their consumer-facing segment is still in shambles.

Re: Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

#133

Post by wastedhours »

digi_owl wrote: post #25
protomyth wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take a look back, Steve Ballmer was responsible for a lot of the success of Microsoft. He mostly got hate because people hated Microsoft. I'm don't think Ballmer's list of accomplishments at Microsoft is fully appreciated particularly compared to the good press Tim Cook as enjoyed.

My impression is that he got less hate and more ridicule. Sure, Gates looked like the archetype nerd any time he presented something. But not was lightyears better than the whole "developers developers developers" dance Ballmer managed to pull. Sadly the tech media have over the years blended over into lifestyle media. No longer is the computer or phone something to get a job done and that's it, now its a indicator o…

Whilst I agree tech has blended with lifestyle, I don't see it as "sad", its perception being more akin to other aspects of personal identity isn't to be seen as derogatory but celebrated as it's expanded the market and the media interest in reporting on it.

Re: Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

#134

Post by smacktoward »

Tepix wrote: post #75
programminggeek wrote: post #57

One important thing that visionaries get credit for, but perhaps shouldn't... Being in the right place at the right time. It is a delightful bit of luck that Steve Jobs made it back to Apple. That scenario could have been way different where Apple bought BeOS, and Steve Jobs didn't return to Apple. If Jobs isn't at Apple, he doesn't have the opportunity or resources to make his vision for the iMac, iBook, iPod, iTune…

I'm not so sure. Jobs learned at lot at NeXT, I think the next company/product he would have worked on would have gotten it right, even if it hadn't been Apple.

I'm not sure he learned much at all.

There is a very clear through-line connecting all the Jobsian products: an aggressively streamlined approach to features, a fascination with high-quality materials and novel industrial processes, and an aesthetic sensibility derived from Bauhaus/Functionalism/Dieter Rams. All these elements are just as present in his misses (Lisa, the original Mac, the NeXT Cube, the G4 Cube) as in his hits (iMac, iPod, iPhone).

What separates his age of mostly misses from his age of mostly hits isn't any change in his design philosophy; it's the passage of time. His misses mostly came early, his hits late.

What this implies to me is that his later success wasn't due to him changing, so much as the world changing around him. In 1984 and 1990 and 1995, he was trying to sell objects d'art into a computing market that was dominated by business/enterprise purchasers, who didn't care if the machines they bought were ugly as sin as long as they were functional and interoperable and cheap. By 2005 the market for tech had shifted away from those buyers into the consumer market, where the priorities were completely different, more like those of the fashion business than of the tech business of old.

Suddenly the Jobsian approach stopped being a liability and started being an asset. But that's not because he learned how to aim better, it's because the targets moved so that they were all neatly lined up in front of him.

Re: Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

#135

Post by DamnYuppie »

chocolatebunny wrote: post #113
Certhas wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Azure seems to be doing well and some people expect it to overtake AWS sooner rather than later in market share. The talk that Microsoft is irrelevant is a bit hilarious, given that they beat google on revenue and income last year. They have morphed from a company that is front and center to one that provides the infrastructure for the digital side of non-tech business. Microsoft Office is absolutely pervasive, and i…

Who's saying Azure will over take AWS? Last I heard AWS was an order of magnitude larger than its nearest competitors.

My understanding is that Amazon doesn't break out the AWS revenue separately so it is quite hard to gauge.

Re: Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

#137

Post by tedmiston »

nathas wrote: post #98
Certhas wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Azure seems to be doing well and some people expect it to overtake AWS sooner rather than later in market share. The talk that Microsoft is irrelevant is a bit hilarious, given that they beat google on revenue and income last year. They have morphed from a company that is front and center to one that provides the infrastructure for the digital side of non-tech business. Microsoft Office is absolutely pervasive, and i…

> Azure seems to be doing well and some people expect it to overtake AWS sooner rather than later in market share. Source? Edit: Sorry, that was lazy of me. Googled: https://mspoweruser.com/cio-surey-finds-microsoft-azure-will... A bit of a biased source, "mspoweruser". Read a bit more.. We'll have to see how the offerings change or evolve in the next 5 years. Edit 2: https://rcpmag.com/articles/2016/08/02/microsoft-…

I'll second the "citation needed" for Azure overtaking AWS "soon".

Re: Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

#138

Post by gr3yh47 »

nathas wrote: post #98
Certhas wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Azure seems to be doing well and some people expect it to overtake AWS sooner rather than later in market share. The talk that Microsoft is irrelevant is a bit hilarious, given that they beat google on revenue and income last year. They have morphed from a company that is front and center to one that provides the infrastructure for the digital side of non-tech business. Microsoft Office is absolutely pervasive, and i…

> Azure seems to be doing well and some people expect it to overtake AWS sooner rather than later in market share. Source? Edit: Sorry, that was lazy of me. Googled: https://mspoweruser.com/cio-surey-finds-microsoft-azure-will... A bit of a biased source, "mspoweruser". Read a bit more.. We'll have to see how the offerings change or evolve in the next 5 years. Edit 2: https://rcpmag.com/articles/2016/08/02/microsoft-…

Azure reliability is near the bottom of the market. I doubt they'll be overtaking aws.

Re: Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

#139

Post by tedmiston »

DamnYuppie wrote: post #135
chocolatebunny wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's saying Azure will over take AWS? Last I heard AWS was an order of magnitude larger than its nearest competitors.

My understanding is that Amazon doesn't break out the AWS revenue separately so it is quite hard to gauge.

If you mean separate AWS revenue from Amazon, they definitely do [1].

[1]: http://www.recode.net/platform/amp/2016/4/28/11586526/aws-cl...

Re: Why Tim Cook Is Steve Ballmer and Why He Still Has His Job at Apple

#140

Post by mtgx »

Certhas wrote: post #64
bad_user wrote: post #12

The article is short on details why he thinks Tim Cook is like Steve Ballmer, except for saying that Apple is slowly missing the boat on AI. I don't know what Amazon does for AI, I haven't seen anything convincing from them, but I'll trust the author that they are working on it. However it's tough to beat Google in this space, because AI and machine learning is what Google has focused on since their beginnings . Goog…

Azure seems to be doing well and some people expect it to overtake AWS sooner rather than later in market share. The talk that Microsoft is irrelevant is a bit hilarious, given that they beat google on revenue and income last year. They have morphed from a company that is front and center to one that provides the infrastructure for the digital side of non-tech business. Microsoft Office is absolutely pervasive, and i…

That seems very unlikely over the next decade at least.
Post reply on HN