Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Bryan Johnson invests $100M in Kernel to unlock the power of the human brain

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 72 posts

Re: Bryan Johnson invests $100M in Kernel to unlock the power of the human brain

#61

Post by nickpsecurity »

tonyhb wrote: post #54
nickpsecurity wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The man doesn't owe you a goddamn thing, and doesn't have some moral obligation to save you from shitty payment processing." That's compatible with my comment. It proposes alternative to the path he took that other bootstrappers with utilitarian bent might find interesting. It doesn't require him personally to do anything. I even said his success was "good for him" in terms of efforts in and result achieved. "You ac…

So giving away $100M of his own money isn't in the slightest selfless? He's a selfish individual? Helping terrible diseases isn't doing something lasting for humanity?

People have to be totally selfish or selfless says a false dichotomy. People seem to like those. I see people's actions to be along a spectrum between where the motivations vary depending on what they want to do. Some people seem to lean almost entirely toward one or the other but I'm not prescriptive about that.

We don't have to guess about his motivations, though. It's in the article:

"For Johnson, the quest is innately personal. His step-father has early signs of Alzheimer’s."

He and his step-father are suffering through the effects of Alzheimer's. He definitely has personal gain from a treatment that would work. There's a clear selfless angle on helping the step-father. He probably, after personally experiencing it, also would like to prevent others from going through the same thing. That's my guess. Respectable motivations for sure.

Re: Bryan Johnson invests $100M in Kernel to unlock the power of the human brain

#62

Post by tim333 »

tim333 wrote: post #4

I googled a bit. The background is quite interesting. Johnson founded and sold Braintree which is where the money came from. The main brain tech guy is Theodore Berger who has tested implants in rats, monkeys and humans with some success http://singularityhub.com/2015/11/15/first-human-tests-of-me... Berger on video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHubR09oKKE

Having watched the Berger video it's interesting what they do - basically have a grid of electrodes at the input to the hippocampus and another at the output and use computer analysis to see what input gives what output and also sometimes allow the computer to stimulate the output.

I guess something like that would allow you to try different computer models to simulate different bit of brain and so decipher its functions bit by bit.

Re: Bryan Johnson invests $100M in Kernel to unlock the power of the human brain

#63

Post by [deleted] »

tim333 wrote: post #4

I googled a bit. The background is quite interesting. Johnson founded and sold Braintree which is where the money came from. The main brain tech guy is Theodore Berger who has tested implants in rats, monkeys and humans with some success http://singularityhub.com/2015/11/15/first-human-tests-of-me... Berger on video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHubR09oKKE

[deleted]

Re: Bryan Johnson invests $100M in Kernel to unlock the power of the human brain

#64

Post by tim333 »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #46
tristanho wrote: post #38

The negativity in these comments is astounding. Here's someone who's investing his own hard-earned money into a "device aimed at reducing cognitive deficiencies for sufferers of conditions like Alzheimer’s and dementia." And all anyone can do is complain that it's infeasible or that he's unqualified. I don't know about you, but I want more people working on these problems, not less. Seems very reminiscent of when Mus…

That's a good point. Space travel was something whose principles were well-understood with plenty of worked examples. Quite unlike the Johnson investment we're talking about but let's continue. It was mainly hard to engineer on a budget due to all the variables and components involved. I was really excited but cautious about that company. I really wanted them to succeed. So, lets test your theory by having a look at…

The Facebook sattelite launch blowing up was not typical.

Re: Bryan Johnson invests $100M in Kernel to unlock the power of the human brain

#65

Post by voidz »

zajd wrote: post #60
voidz wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. I blame it on a trend of the 2010s: friendly people who would otherwise write moderate and/or optimistic comments a decade ago, have increasingly lost motivation to partake. This is my theory at least, I can't back it up scientifically or any of that. The causes and/or reasons are that many of those people may have become parents (myself included), or have grown tired of the negativity, or frustrated by the Orw…

It also could have something to do with the socioeconomic landscape where a vast majority of individuals simply don't have the means or ability to contribute or even participate.

Sure, can't rule it out. But I'd say you're pointing out a different (though in and of itself legitimate) problem than the problem of hostility in the sphere which many of us from the 70s and 80s grew up and old(ish) in.

To be honest with you, if I just look at how those people in my very well developed country (with the Internet being ubiquitous, and being poor generally means receiving minimal benefits as opposed to having no money or place to live) behave who still do partake in the public discourse, I'd say that the problem is more with all of their bitterness than that their bitterness is caused by those who never even had a chance in the first place.

As for me, I'm no saint either because I too can get bitter, annoyed, cynical and depressed from time to time. The difference is just that don't tell people off or post my unhappiness; I have the proclivity to just shut up and leave. "There's no use to arguing". Or I do my absolute best to be constructive, like now.

And to add to that: these days and even years I also barely share my own happiness and/or optimism online, because I don't want my vulnerabilities and/or soft spots to become targets. In fact, I'm not even sharing most of my humanity / personality / identity online with strangers at all anymore, unless it's to reflect or in an attempt to at least offer something to counter all of the now common harshness. Like in comments such as this one. And if I'm really really honest then I also need to admit that this side of me is really closer to a character trait than that it's something implying actual personal involvement.

But I digressed, sorry, so let me back up a bit to the two kinds of groups we've established. Maybe the latter group (the one you pointed out) could indeed bring something nice to the table. Assuming they could, it's not realistic to assume they would, for clearly it's not exactly an hospitable, inviting environment these days, and I'd say this just doesn't make it appealing at all.

Simply put: it is what it is mainly due to those who can join in and they either freeze, fight, or flight. Who in their right mind who's not here already would want to join in on that mess?

Re: Bryan Johnson invests $100M in Kernel to unlock the power of the human brain

#66

Post by [deleted] »

zajd wrote: post #60
voidz wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. I blame it on a trend of the 2010s: friendly people who would otherwise write moderate and/or optimistic comments a decade ago, have increasingly lost motivation to partake. This is my theory at least, I can't back it up scientifically or any of that. The causes and/or reasons are that many of those people may have become parents (myself included), or have grown tired of the negativity, or frustrated by the Orw…

It also could have something to do with the socioeconomic landscape where a vast majority of individuals simply don't have the means or ability to contribute or even participate.

[deleted]

Re: Bryan Johnson invests $100M in Kernel to unlock the power of the human brain

#67

Post by nickpsecurity »

tim333 wrote: post #64
nickpsecurity wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point. Space travel was something whose principles were well-understood with plenty of worked examples. Quite unlike the Johnson investment we're talking about but let's continue. It was mainly hard to engineer on a budget due to all the variables and components involved. I was really excited but cautious about that company. I really wanted them to succeed. So, lets test your theory by having a look at…

The Facebook sattelite launch blowing up was not typical.

That's true. The product has had very, few uses with only a few failures. Hard to say how reliable it is until we see more launches. Which is kind of the point given this is a well-understood field vs OP investment in one that isn't. Reasons why I think SpaceX is a bad point of comparison to judge this investment.

Re: Bryan Johnson invests $100M in Kernel to unlock the power of the human brain

#68

Post by hprotagonist »

forgotmysn wrote: post #28
hprotagonist wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think i'm largely agnostic about that in principle. In practice, collaborations are hard and setting up new ones is even harder, so striking out into the wild and being able to do cool stuff fast generally costs more than 100M.

From what I understand though, that's exactly why Johnson invested his own money and turned down outside investment: this is just the first step on a very long road, and it doesn't sound like he anticipates a viable return in an amount of time that a venture fund could justify participating in.

>" The futuristic device, which Johnson says might actually not need to be implanted beneath the skull at all, is designed to facilitate communication between brain cells by hacking the “neural code” that enables our brain to store and recall key information. "

Estimated timescale: centuries. Not for want of trying, but we have no credible idea what "the" neural code is, even in subcortical areas that are relatively simple to study like the optic and auditory nerves. Once you're anywhere beyond the inferior colliculus, all bets are officially off. (and if you have any good ideas, drop me a line!)

Our best tools fail to explain anything particularly interesting about much, much simpler analogous systems: http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/05/26/055624.

Re: Bryan Johnson invests $100M in Kernel to unlock the power of the human brain

#69

Post by the_watcher »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #48
the_watcher wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oddly enough, the applicable quote is from The Martian: "We built a lunar lander from scratch in seven years." Hard things get done by people who try to do them. Seriously, it's his own money .

You realize that project cost billions of dollars with insanely huge teams of smart people working with established principles of physics, chemistry, and so on rather than mostly unknowns in neuroscience? No practical comparison between this and Apollo despite me wanting an Apollo-style effort put into certain problems we face. Including understanding the brain although maybe communications infrastructure, cheap comp…

Did you read the article? Where Johnson anticipates $7-10B in funding to get anything out the door? He's investing $100M of his own money to get things started. The point is that the reflexive negativity here is simply astonishing, again, given that we're all communicating via technology that, less than one century ago, would be considered pure magic.

Re: Bryan Johnson invests $100M in Kernel to unlock the power of the human brain

#70

Post by the_watcher »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #40
the_watcher wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A guy bootstrapped a company and got rich doing it: the best possible inspiration to future bootstrappers, but you find that a bad thing? What's your problem with someone spending his own money to chase something you think is impossible? Seriously, the amount of hate on HN for people that are actually trying to do hard things is astonishing.

"A guy bootstrapped a company and got rich doing it: the best possible inspiration to future bootstrappers" Oh no. That's one possible inspiration. Another would be Braintree IPOing or continuing as a company providing an alternative to Paypal's BS I constantly read about while guy continues to make tons of money or get rich. Then he invests in hard problems we're likely to solve where we have the necessary foundatio…

You're correct. There are more inspirations. But the fact that he didn't cash out in the way that you wanted doesn't make him a failure.
Post reply on HN