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IPFS is the Distributed Web

ipfs.io

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Re: IPFS is the Distributed Web

#181

Post by clueless404 »

lukasb wrote: post #178
clueless404 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but only for suitably popular content, as all the dead torrents will testify. This doesn't make IPFS very appealing to Joe Blow, content maker unextraordinaire.

IPFS isn't meant to provide hosting. It's meant to help you scale distribution. If Joe Blow's content isn't that popular, he doesn't need IPFS anyway.

Ok, so IPFS isn't for hosting and it's not for unpopular content.

What is it for then? For scaling distribution, you say. What problem does it solve? How, what and why? Is it better than BitTorrent for that use case?

Re: IPFS is the Distributed Web

#182

Post by loulouxiv »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #53
hkt wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution does not have to be technical. If you want to restore control to as wide a group as possible, start by running a centralised service with a membership structure. Not everybody is clever enough to run their own stuff, but almost everyone can use a website or an app. Allowing them a role in governance rather than operations is the key factor. I wish more people thought so.

> "Not everybody is clever enough to run their own stuff" It's possible to make home servers easy enough to use they're effectively plug and play. I've got my own ideas of how this can be done, others have different ideas, but the goal of easy home server infrastructure is the same. Once you have that, it becomes painless to take part in IPFS or similar.

I used to think that home servers could be the best solution, but I see more and more obstacles in the way of adoption. First, even if you can create a plug and play home server box, it will still need some configuration to make it available from the internet, which while very obvious to anyone a bit techie can be difficult to even explain in layman's terms. Secondly, it is not clear if there is an acceptable solution to security issues. In such a system that by design will be accessible from the internet, this a major problem. Auto updates could be part of the answer, but it seems that human intervention would still be needed from time to time and that imply an effort of the user to keep informed and aware of such operations. Or an entity could offer a remote administration service but that would displace entirely control of the system and create a single point of failure. At that point you might as well have that entity administer a single server used for a moderate number of people. If this entity is a non-profit where governance is shared between all members it could very well be an ideal solution. In France the "association loi 1901" legal structure is a good fit and is known and understood by the vast majority of the population.

Re: IPFS is the Distributed Web

#183

Post by bergie »

teekert wrote: post #163
voltagex_ wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "unavailable for legal reasons" message appears to be issued by the ipfs.io gateway - IMO perfectly reasonable.

Sure but it´s not really unavailable I mean.

Yep, but ipfs.io refuses to distribute it. Doesn't mean other IPFS hosts necessarily do

Re: IPFS is the Distributed Web

#184

Post by NeutronBoy »

fizzbatter wrote: post #92
idlewords wrote: post #9

I worry that this is another example of throwing technology at a social and political problem. That the current web is centralized has little to do with its technical design, and everything to do with economic and structural incentives that have made it that way. It's tempting to say "start afresh", but we'll just be trading our current problems for a new set of problems IPFS introduces. It's a law of nature that pro…

> I worry that this is another example of throwing technology at a social and political problem. I'm so lost at this assertion. How is this a social / political problem? IPFS is not permanent hosting. It is not an attempt to take power away from others and distribute it to the masses. It is purely a technical problem, which i think is objectively true. I have a feeling that you believe IPFS is partially designed to s…

> I'm so lost at this assertion. How is this a social / political problem?

How is it a technical problem? Current web technologies allow decentralised web (except for maybe root name servers). Everyone can host their own content, control their own servers, basically everything below your hostname. The implementation has led down a centralised path.

Re: IPFS is the Distributed Web

#185

Post by qwertyuiop924 »

clueless404 wrote: post #166
qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this is very different: This is more like the original copyright holder putting something on BitTorrent, inviting people to download it freely, and them suing anybody who seeds it: By putting the data on a P2P protocol, you've kind of implicitly stated that you're okay with people seeding, or whatever the local terminology for the same is.

Um, no. You have no guarantees that the content put up via IPFS is by the original copyright owner. Thus immediately after you receive the infringing content over IPFS and start seeding it, you are infringing on the copyright owners rights. You have no recourse and no legal defenses to protect you.

Well, then, as soon as you receive notification, you can immediately stop hosting the data: it's like a DMCA takedown, but you have to send it to way more people.

Re: IPFS is the Distributed Web

#186

Post by fizzbatter »

NeutronBoy wrote: post #184
fizzbatter wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I worry that this is another example of throwing technology at a social and political problem. I'm so lost at this assertion. How is this a social / political problem? IPFS is not permanent hosting. It is not an attempt to take power away from others and distribute it to the masses. It is purely a technical problem, which i think is objectively true. I have a feeling that you believe IPFS is partially designed to s…

> I'm so lost at this assertion. How is this a social / political problem? How is it a technical problem? Current web technologies allow decentralised web (except for maybe root name servers). Everyone can host their own content, control their own servers, basically everything below your hostname. The implementation has led down a centralised path.

> The implementation has led down a centralised path.

Sure, but choosing another implementation is.. a technical choice, is it not? Are you saying that if i choose to implement a distributed method it's not technical? What is my choice then, political?

Because i have no political motives.. purely technical. I want less data choking the pipes. Which is all IPFS is ultimately doing. Seems pretty technical (instead of social/political, atleast) to me.

Am i missing what you were conveying?

Re: IPFS is the Distributed Web

#187

Post by j45 »

I really hope something like this takes off.

Connecting and indexing documents has been the challenge of a few internet generations. Creating a document at a point of filing is a subtle but potentially large shift.

Hopefully this lands on homebrew soon to aid it's growth.

Re: IPFS is the Distributed Web

#188

Post by lukasb »

clueless404 wrote: post #181
lukasb wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IPFS isn't meant to provide hosting. It's meant to help you scale distribution. If Joe Blow's content isn't that popular, he doesn't need IPFS anyway.

Ok, so IPFS isn't for hosting and it's not for unpopular content. What is it for then? For scaling distribution, you say. What problem does it solve? How, what and why? Is it better than BitTorrent for that use case?

it's better than bittorrent because you don't need a centralized tracker.

Re: IPFS is the Distributed Web

#189

Post by 0xCMP »

ShakataGaNai wrote: post #180

So I've got a (let's say) WordPress blog. Where's the "here's how to get your existing content on IPFS in less than an hour" guide?

I think it'd have to be saved statically. Which actually makes this question interesting: How do you store comments on an IPFS site? Constantly updating a single file on IPFS?

Re: IPFS is the Distributed Web

#190

Post by jbpetersen »

tscs37 wrote: post #16
msane wrote: post #7

If you want to tamper with content on the web, the idea that content is fingerprinted in IPFS is a huge deal. IPNS (the name service) then becomes the vulnerability, but that is also distributed.

Well, as I understood IPNS is a bit limited; it only has one resource and there is only one authority that can change content, the node in this case. It does protect against DDOS, since old content remains visible and online but if the private key is leaked or the node is malicious, it has exactly 0 protection. Even worse, if the private key is stolen, you can't do much about it unless you have DNS setup... which bri…

I'm curious what the impact will be of the upcoming improvements to easily support multiple IPNS entries on a single node, along with navigating the Ethereum blockchain, which I'm guessing will make more complex authority schemes easier?
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