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Elon Musk's finances

economist.com

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Re: Elon Musk's finances

#71

Post by jernfrost »

__s wrote: post #42
dilemma wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any credible sources that show Teslas as more environmentally friendly? Electric vehicles run on coal and natural gas to varyingly large extents.

Power plants are more efficient than a car's combustion engine, & power plants can change over time without changing the vehicle. Modular design ftw

And a lot of todays power-plants can't regulate supply to meet demand easily so power is often wasted or sold at negative price. This is a particular problem at night time. With EVs charging at night one could handle excess power production without expanding total electric production in any way. EVs are simply a good match for the limitations of today's power production.

Re: Elon Musk's finances

#72

Post by ricardobeat »

kuschku wrote: post #69
snsr wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The issue is that Tesla isn’t doing something really new Objectively they absolutely are.

Oh, they are? Did they invent any new batteries? No. That IP belongs to Panasonic. Did they invent any new technology for electric motors, or any gear technology, or even chargers? No, there are even older, and better, and more widely deployed supercharger standards, and they are doing nothing unusual regarding the rest. Does Tesla do anything new regarding self-driving cars? No, the teams from Sony and VW, Here, Goo…

Enjoy your reading: http://stks.freshpatents.com/Tesla-Motors-Inc-nm1.php

Re: Elon Musk's finances

#74

Post by firethief »

mrfusion wrote: post #32
samfisher83 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 2010 decision, for example, eBay Domestic Holdings Inc. v. Newmark, held that corporate directors are bound by "fiduciary duties and standards" which include "acting to promote the value of the corporation for the benefit of its stockholders." http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are-cor... Under US law there would be a problem if he did that.

If a CEO genuinely believed climate change was an existential threat wouldnt actions to mitigate it be acting in the interest of the shareholders even if the company loses money?

I don't think that follows. It would be in the interest of the shareholders for _someone_ to address the problem, but it would not be in their interest to volunteer to foot the bill.

Re: Elon Musk's finances

#75

Post by greglindahl »

greglindahl wrote: post #67
jondubois wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less than 0% is not what I would call "huge margins": https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3ATSLA&fstype=ii&ei=... Twitter revenue is growing very rapidly, just like Tesla's: https://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE%3ATWTR&fstype=ii&hl=en... Economically speaking, they're very similar.

By margins, I'm referring to the car COGS vs selling price, not including the cost of design. (Yes, I know that this isn't the usual yardstick for mature car companies, but we have no idea how many model S/X cars are going to sell before it needs a new platform, and this IS the usual yardstick for Silicon Valley startups.) Twitter revenue is growing much slower than Tesla's, especially if you take into account the pr…

p.s. I never said "huge margins".

Re: Elon Musk's finances

#76

Post by avmich »

firethief wrote: post #74
mrfusion wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a CEO genuinely believed climate change was an existential threat wouldnt actions to mitigate it be acting in the interest of the shareholders even if the company loses money?

I don't think that follows. It would be in the interest of the shareholders for _someone_ to address the problem, but it would not be in their interest to volunteer to foot the bill.

It's not clear. If nobody else addresses the problem, or if someone else does it only with condition that this company also participates, or if not enough of others is working on it - in all these cases, and others, footing the bill could be beneficial for shareholders.

Re: Elon Musk's finances

#77

Post by jacques_chester »

codeulike wrote: post #24
radiorental wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone talks about the wonders of capitalism and how risk is rewarded Yes, when that risk is spread across the system and the fundamentals are stable ventures. Point being when all you do is take large risks, that's a problem. (fwiw: long on tsla)

Musk is basically undertaking a moon shot: either a huge success or crash and burn. There's not much point keeping reserves.

> Musk is basically undertaking a moon shot: either a huge success or crash and burn.

I wish people would stop using the Apollo program as an example of an expensive gamble.

There was no market uncertainty. The problem was complex but the physics showed it could be done.

The overall plan was tested in multiple stages (which is why the first landing was by Apollo 11) undertaken with massive armies of bright folk overengineering the living daylights out of everything in view.

Meanwhile people call any old MVP a "moonshot" or a speculative research program a "moonshot" and it's just ... a poor analogy.

Re: Elon Musk's finances

#78

Post by toomuchtodo »

hyperbovine wrote: post #50
xiphias wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This not true, but also you have to look at the huge solar panel on top of the Tesla Gigafactory that decreases the footprint even more. https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-carbon-foot-print-of-manuf... Also I'm biased because I'm suffering from COPD because of the car emissions, so actually I take health impact into account more than most people.

The Gigafactory makes batteries, not cars. Having toured Teslas factory in Fremont, it sure looked pretty carbon intensive to me. I'm thinking of the house-sized aluminum press, hundreds of giant robotic arms, etc.

Everything at the factory you described runs on electricity, most likely clean renewable electricity. And if not, it will be shortly as solar and wind continue to drive out fossil fuels in the electrical generating mix.

Re: Elon Musk's finances

#79

Post by toomuchtodo »

RealityVoid wrote: post #14
anindha wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla aims to make their cars last 10 times longer than the average gasoline car. There are less things that can go wrong with an electric car. They are creating ways to increase utility on each car. Less people will need their own car. Edit: I should clarify. Tesla is aiming to make their drive trains last 1m miles. Most car companies don't offer extended warranty past 100k miles. Normal car companies want you to bu…

Are you kidding me? 10 times longer lifespan is _huge_, if we assume the average car lasts only 10 years that would mean you'd be able to use a Tesla for 100 years. That is totally not happening, especially with Tesla's reluctance to share maintenance manuals. It seems, on the contrary, that the Tesla cars have lower life-span than classic combustion engine cars.

Elon has specifically said he's targeted a million miles of reliabiiity on the drivetrain. Maybe not 10 times longer, but still far more service life than a traditional ICE.

Tesla doesn't need to share the repair manuals. You're not touching the battery pack internals or the electric motors; if they fail, they are swapped out entirely and sent to the Gigafactory refurbishment line.

Re: Elon Musk's finances

#80

Post by RealityVoid »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #79
RealityVoid wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding me? 10 times longer lifespan is _huge_, if we assume the average car lasts only 10 years that would mean you'd be able to use a Tesla for 100 years. That is totally not happening, especially with Tesla's reluctance to share maintenance manuals. It seems, on the contrary, that the Tesla cars have lower life-span than classic combustion engine cars.

Elon has specifically said he's targeted a million miles of reliabiiity on the drivetrain. Maybe not 10 times longer, but still far more service life than a traditional ICE. Tesla doesn't need to share the repair manuals. You're not touching the battery pack internals or the electric motors; if they fail, they are swapped out entirely and sent to the Gigafactory refurbishment line.

The Tesla is far more than a battery pack on wheels. There are plenty of things that can fail and need to be repaired. Failing to facilitate that means the lifespan of the car si significantly reduced.
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