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Elon Musk's finances

economist.com

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Re: Elon Musk's finances

#31

Post by nabla9 »

samfisher83 wrote: post #23
nabla9 wrote: post #21

I have no problem whatsoever if Elon Musk destroys investor money to build new technological future. In fact, I fully encourage and support his endeavor as long as it's not my money. Here is epic piece from Warren Buffet from November 22, 1999. Just five months before internet bubble collapsed he explained why he didn't invest in internet technology when everyone said that he was being stupid old fool. http://archive…

A 2010 decision, for example, eBay Domestic Holdings Inc. v. Newmark, held that corporate directors are bound by "fiduciary duties and standards" which include "acting to promote the value of the corporation for the benefit of its stockholders." http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are-cor... Under US law there would be a problem if he did that.

I don't see how his interests are separate from promoting the value of the corporation. His approach is just very risky.

Hyping investors to take too much risk is OK unless he intentionally hides something and don't put it in financial statements.

Re: Elon Musk's finances

#32

Post by mrfusion »

samfisher83 wrote: post #23
nabla9 wrote: post #21

I have no problem whatsoever if Elon Musk destroys investor money to build new technological future. In fact, I fully encourage and support his endeavor as long as it's not my money. Here is epic piece from Warren Buffet from November 22, 1999. Just five months before internet bubble collapsed he explained why he didn't invest in internet technology when everyone said that he was being stupid old fool. http://archive…

A 2010 decision, for example, eBay Domestic Holdings Inc. v. Newmark, held that corporate directors are bound by "fiduciary duties and standards" which include "acting to promote the value of the corporation for the benefit of its stockholders." http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are-cor... Under US law there would be a problem if he did that.

If a CEO genuinely believed climate change was an existential threat wouldnt actions to mitigate it be acting in the interest of the shareholders even if the company loses money?

Re: Elon Musk's finances

#33

Post by xiphias »

115100 wrote: post #4
xiphias wrote: post #2

The whole article is failing to point out the biggest risks that the clean-tech companies are fighting against: global warming and lung cancer. Even though all older car companies have the ability right now to take a huge financial and PR risk, they're still not talking about the damage car emissions cause. Tesla is the first company that convinced me to buy a new car instead of an 8 year old one, as I didn't see eno…

Most of the environmental impact of a car is in its manufacturing, so global warming is made worse by Tesla selling more cars instead of people buying older ones.

This not true, but also you have to look at the huge solar panel on top of the Tesla Gigafactory that decreases the footprint even more.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-carbon-foot-print-of-manuf...

Also I'm biased because I'm suffering from COPD because of the car emissions, so actually I take health impact into account more than most people.

Re: Elon Musk's finances

#34

Post by xiphias »

anindha wrote: post #5

The $400m cash flow from pre-orders is an example of it being easier to tackle hard problems than easy ones. A lot of people would rather risk money in Tesla then make money investing in a bank or an oil company.

The only problem here is that $1000/car is nothing compared to what they need to deliver in return: a huge manufacturing plant

Re: Elon Musk's finances

#35

Post by dilemma »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #29
115100 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the environmental impact of a car is in its manufacturing, so global warming is made worse by Tesla selling more cars instead of people buying older ones.

It's made worse in short term this way, yes. But the car production happens and will happen anyway - Musk is only a small fraction of that now. Tesla is aiming to convince everyone to switch to eco-friendly cars, which means that besides adding its own production, it's basically trying to force everyone else's production to switch to making electric cars. So you can't look just at this year's increase in numbers of c…

Are there any credible sources that show Teslas as more environmentally friendly? Electric vehicles run on coal and natural gas to varyingly large extents.

Re: Elon Musk's finances

#36

Post by sweden »

tombone12 wrote: post #27
sweden wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a better situation: having a polluting factory making polluting cars or having a polluting factory making eco-friendly cars? Maybe if the automotive industry had made this step a long ago, we could have been buying old but eco-friendly electric cars right now instead of buying gas/petrol cars. On another perspective, Tesla is also heavily investing in self-driving technology. So we could even stop buying cars…

Buying an 8 year old car means buying a used car, no? In that case you are comparing the polluting factory to no factory at all. Fleets of self driving cars are called public transport or taxis (depends on your preference), and have been around for a while. The environmental benefit of exchanging the bus driver with a more efficient steering method is probably offset by the idea that the inefficiencies of cars compar…

But a 8 year old car nowadays means a polluting car, not an electric one.

I don't see fleets of self driving cars being the same as public transportation or as taxis, I view them as something between private transportation and public transportation, an enhanced version of the we nowadays call car pooling.

A self driving vehicle can be a private one but at the same time, it could be also used to provide rides to other people other than the owner. For example: I am imagining that it would make it easier for companies and work places to arrange an efficient transportation to their employees without relying on the local governments or in public transportation agencies.

But I admit that expecting this to be revolutionary and game changing for the environment might be a bit of a stretch.

Re: Elon Musk's finances

#37

Post by TeMPOraL »

dilemma wrote: post #35
TeMPOraL wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's made worse in short term this way, yes. But the car production happens and will happen anyway - Musk is only a small fraction of that now. Tesla is aiming to convince everyone to switch to eco-friendly cars, which means that besides adding its own production, it's basically trying to force everyone else's production to switch to making electric cars. So you can't look just at this year's increase in numbers of c…

Are there any credible sources that show Teslas as more environmentally friendly? Electric vehicles run on coal and natural gas to varyingly large extents.

They also run on nuclear power and wind power and solar power - it all depends on what a local power grid uses.

But regardless, burning fuel at a power plant is much more efficient than doing it in an ICE, so even if Teslas were powered by gasoline, as long as it's burned at the central plant, it's more energy-efficient and better for the environment.

Re: Elon Musk's finances

#38

Post by [deleted] »

radiorental wrote: post #19
codeulike wrote: post #13

a business empire with a financial structure that works only if risky companies perform perfectly on ambitious plans Everyone talks about the wonders of capitalism and how risk is rewarded, but then someone comes along who is actually taking risks to achieve big objectives and the industry watchers collectively shit their pants.

> Everyone talks about the wonders of capitalism and how risk is rewarded Yes, when that risk is spread across the system and the fundamentals are stable ventures. Point being when all you do is take large risks, that's a problem. (fwiw: long on tsla)

[deleted]

Re: Elon Musk's finances

#39

Post by kgwgk »

mrfusion wrote: post #32
samfisher83 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 2010 decision, for example, eBay Domestic Holdings Inc. v. Newmark, held that corporate directors are bound by "fiduciary duties and standards" which include "acting to promote the value of the corporation for the benefit of its stockholders." http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are-cor... Under US law there would be a problem if he did that.

If a CEO genuinely believed climate change was an existential threat wouldnt actions to mitigate it be acting in the interest of the shareholders even if the company loses money?

And if he genuinely believed that the world was coming to an end unless he sacrificed a newborn every midnight, would the killings be in the interest of the shareholders?

Re: Elon Musk's finances

#40

Post by qeternity »

radiorental wrote: post #19
codeulike wrote: post #13

a business empire with a financial structure that works only if risky companies perform perfectly on ambitious plans Everyone talks about the wonders of capitalism and how risk is rewarded, but then someone comes along who is actually taking risks to achieve big objectives and the industry watchers collectively shit their pants.

> Everyone talks about the wonders of capitalism and how risk is rewarded Yes, when that risk is spread across the system and the fundamentals are stable ventures. Point being when all you do is take large risks, that's a problem. (fwiw: long on tsla)

I applaud your use of trading lingo but it's just "long tsla" ;)
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