Live data from Hacker News

PayPal 2FA Bypass

henryhoggard.co.uk

91–100 of 148 posts

Re: PayPal 2FA Bypass

#91
The lesson from this:

Just looping trough input arguments from the client, validating them and then acting on them gives the client control of the code execution.

It's not enough to validate each input argument. You musth also verify that all parameters are really there and no extra parameters can slip into the system. The whole combination must make sense. Enumerating all used parameter combinations in a record that can be changed easily is one way to solve this.

Re: PayPal 2FA Bypass

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, both my banks (Banco do Brasil and Santander) are worse. 6 characters, numbers only! "For my safety" they recommend not using my birthday - how thoughtful.

But then you (you= any person) have to consider that it'll block after some tries. It's different from a system that never blocks passwords, security questions, and so on.

Attacker's first attempt has a nonnegligible chance of success. Attacker can just do one attempt against one account and move to attacking a different account after each failure.

Re: PayPal 2FA Bypass

#93
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I went to setup my online account for my old bank, I entered a randomly generated 16 digit key and got an error; "Maximum password length limited to 6 characters...only alpha-numeric" I called to inform them that their account creation was broken, because obviously that was a bug. They told me that sometimes people have a hard time remembering their password, so they "need to balance between ease of use and secu…

It seems standard practice for German banks to limit online passwords to five alpha-numeric characters. Fortunately, you need a TAN number (generated by a device or from an SMS message) to actually make a transaction. I have no idea why they limit the password length like this.

Commerzbank actually uses 8 characters, but that’s still horrible.

Luckily, you can also require all transactions to be done via HBCI with proper security and a smart card for auth.

Re: PayPal 2FA Bypass

#94
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it must be said that GPU evolution, and that password cracking software developers are naturally going to go where the passwords are, that this type of simple password design does NOT work anymore.

They are suggesting it for a security answer, especially one you give over the phone to tech support, NOT a password.

Irrelevant. It works fine for passwords too. The security of "correct horse battery staple" method is (nearly) optimally resistant to GPU (or any other) brute force attack.

Re: PayPal 2FA Bypass

#95
post #56

Mistakes were made, and there are definitely lessons to be learned, but if we want to improve the state of security, we really need to change the way we react to these types of bugs. If a service has an outage and a company posts a postmortem, we all think: "wow! that was an interesting bug, lets learn from this". We shouldn't be treating security issues differently. People who make security mistakes aren't idiots. T…

The problem is in PayPal's case, 2FA has been terrible for years. I've even been locked out of the account for a whole week because of their shitty SMS sending service. This prompted me to disable 2FA on Paypal, because weirdly enough that makes me feel "safer" (as in safer from losing my money due to Paypal's stupidity by being locked out of the account).

So in this case I'm certainly not one to say "hey, mistakes were made - let's give them another chance." They've been getting reports about their 2FA system for years. So there's no excuse at this point.

Re: PayPal 2FA Bypass

#96
post #70

Am I the only one who found it odd that the author had internet access, but there was no phone signal? Maybe it's because I'm Kenyan, where phone penetration is much higher than internet penetration, and where internet access over GSM has the biggest share of the internet access pie chart.

This often happens when I'm travelling internationally. If I plan on buying a local sim card instead of purchasing a roaming plan - I might not have access to my SMS until I get back home.

Get a next gen phone; They should all do Wifi Calling now. This causes your phone to tunnel the cellular via internet link, and you get full call and sms coverage.

Of course, 2FA via SMS is a bad and deprecated pattern and needs to die! But! you can get your phone overseas without roaming which is pretty neat.

Re: PayPal 2FA Bypass

#97
post #56

Mistakes were made, and there are definitely lessons to be learned, but if we want to improve the state of security, we really need to change the way we react to these types of bugs. If a service has an outage and a company posts a postmortem, we all think: "wow! that was an interesting bug, lets learn from this". We shouldn't be treating security issues differently. People who make security mistakes aren't idiots. T…

While I strongly agree with the thrust of your comment, I'd like to chime in and say that this is not a cool bug. On the scale of web security bugs, this is the kind of thing you expect an intern to find.

I actually think the post was written in recognition of that fact, and was amused by the thudding, abrupt conclusion it had; it was like the author was sharing a joke. "Yup, it was that easy".

People who do this kind of security work (check out the rest of the author's posts) tend to be running their browsers piped through a local interception proxy. Once you develop the habit of mind to look for stuff like security parameters, it's hard not to notice these kinds of things. I think more developers should tool up the same way and learn the same habits.

Re: PayPal 2FA Bypass

#98
post #56

Mistakes were made, and there are definitely lessons to be learned, but if we want to improve the state of security, we really need to change the way we react to these types of bugs. If a service has an outage and a company posts a postmortem, we all think: "wow! that was an interesting bug, lets learn from this". We shouldn't be treating security issues differently. People who make security mistakes aren't idiots. T…

> If you can't - just generate a random password as the answer. "I_ty/:QWuCllV?'6ILs`O12kl;d0-`1" is an excellent name for your first dog / high school. Just don't forget to use a password manager to store these. Be wary of social engineering attacks though. - I'd also need you to provide me an answer to your security question. What was your first dog's name? - Oh, you know, it's a long string of random characters I…

I always fill all social engineering-vulnerable questions with nonsense, especially when it is a banking site. I like when they let you set the question yourself so you can put something like "Why would a secure financial institution allow such a horrible security hole in it's system?" To which the answer is Tyrolese4Tokyo_Beulah!Papuan.

Re: PayPal 2FA Bypass

#99
post #56

Mistakes were made, and there are definitely lessons to be learned, but if we want to improve the state of security, we really need to change the way we react to these types of bugs. If a service has an outage and a company posts a postmortem, we all think: "wow! that was an interesting bug, lets learn from this". We shouldn't be treating security issues differently. People who make security mistakes aren't idiots. T…

> If you can't - just generate a random password as the answer. "I_ty/:QWuCllV?'6ILs`O12kl;d0-`1" is an excellent name for your first dog / high school. Just don't forget to use a password manager to store these. Be wary of social engineering attacks though. - I'd also need you to provide me an answer to your security question. What was your first dog's name? - Oh, you know, it's a long string of random characters I…

That's why mine answers are "DO NOT ACCEPT THIS ANSWER!!! ". Hopefully the support person will get the hint. :-/

Re: PayPal 2FA Bypass

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, both my banks (Banco do Brasil and Santander) are worse. 6 characters, numbers only! "For my safety" they recommend not using my birthday - how thoughtful.

But then you (you= any person) have to consider that it'll block after some tries. It's different from a system that never blocks passwords, security questions, and so on.

Great, then it's a DOS attack. Unless it is limited per IP, and then it's not effective again if attacker has a botnet.
Post reply on HN