Isn't there a statute of limitations on such belated claims?
Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses
131–140 of 155 posts
Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses
#132"Robert D’Andrea, a retired Army major and Iraq veteran, was told to return a $20,000 bonus he received in 2008 because auditors could not find a copy of the contract he says he signed." How is this possible? If private businesses could do this, it would be mayhem.
Always always keep your paperwork..
I do lots of contracts with people. Sometimes I've been told the other party "lost" the contract or "didn't remember making a deal with me", etc. I say "no problem, I have a copy of it right here with your signature on it!"
It doesn't happen very often, but enough to make it worthwhile to always keep a copy.
Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
...except the whole problem is that they overpaid bonuses.
Yeah. They gave the radio operator bonus to the cook (as an example). It's easy to see from the amount it was the radio bonus, and it's easy to see from the service record somebody was a cook, and that was bonus was overpaid. And now they want their money back (which is pretty shitty, given the circumstances). But the amounts of the correct bonus and the given bonus are not unknowable. These aren't bespoke contracts,…
Unless they can show bad faith on the part of the beneficiary, shouldn't whoever authorised the payment be on the hook for it?
Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses
#134I tell my son, his friends, and anyone who will listen: don't join the military unless this is your calling, indicated by God's finger touching your heart.
Because the military will treat you like shit if it's merely inconvenient to do otherwise. VA. Guard units called up to combat for one day shy of the time that would qualify them for combat pay. The linked article. Institutional abuse. Forced reenlistment during questionable wars. Etc.
USN, E6, 1975-1981. Not that that gives me any particular place on the moral ground. And for the record, I had a relatively easy time in the Navy. But even if I'd never been in, I'd be as outraged as I am now.
Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses
#135"Robert D’Andrea, a retired Army major and Iraq veteran, was told to return a $20,000 bonus he received in 2008 because auditors could not find a copy of the contract he says he signed." How is this possible? If private businesses could do this, it would be mayhem.
I'm surprised that this is somehow even passed the slightest political oversight. You need to be a special kind of bastard to ask some one who willingly signed up to get shot at while defending their country to pay back any amount of money they got paid for doing so. Wars aren't pretty, regardless of what you think about them, and especially about Iraq and Afghanistan never ever take it out on the soldiers, they are…
My understanding is that the US has a professional army. Why are they called "volunteers"? Over here, a volunteer is someone who voluntarily joins earlier than required to begin his mandatory army service. People who join a job are all volunteers of course, but that's not remarkable.
Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm surprised that this is somehow even passed the slightest political oversight. You need to be a special kind of bastard to ask some one who willingly signed up to get shot at while defending their country to pay back any amount of money they got paid for doing so. Wars aren't pretty, regardless of what you think about them, and especially about Iraq and Afghanistan never ever take it out on the soldiers, they are…
While I'm certainly of the opinion that this is a ridiculous situation and those bonuses should be left alone (salary of 42 auditors alone would probably take the lion's share of the recoverable funds, independent of the moral issue), let's keep things in perspective - deployment to Iraq was not 'defending their country'. The US was never threatened by Iraq. Similarly, not everyone in Vietnam got drafted, and even if…
> deployment to Iraq was not 'defending their country'
They served. They were certainly misused and misdeployed, but they served their country, they lost limbs, lives, time and the innocence that most of us enjoy our entire lives, and they deserve respect and support. Not worship; merely respect and support.
Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses
#137“We’d be more than happy to absolve these people of their debts. We just can’t do it. We’d be breaking the law.” Ok. There's a law, a bad law that needs to be changed. Is Congress so dysfunctional it can't fix this monstrosity?
> Is Congress so dysfunctional it can't fix this monstrosity?
Well, first they'd have to get past the inevitable argument to defund Planned Parenthood.
So, yes. Yes they are that dysfunctional.
Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I'm certainly of the opinion that this is a ridiculous situation and those bonuses should be left alone (salary of 42 auditors alone would probably take the lion's share of the recoverable funds, independent of the moral issue), let's keep things in perspective - deployment to Iraq was not 'defending their country'. The US was never threatened by Iraq. Similarly, not everyone in Vietnam got drafted, and even if…
People serve in the military for all kinds of reasons. Some, because it's a family tradition. Others, because they believe in serving their country. And many others, because it presents them with an economic opportunity they would never otherwise have had: college, vocational training, and increased social status. Very few join hoping to go to war. I doubt that most of the people sent to invade Iraq truly wanted to b…
None of what you have eloquently said particularly opposes what I said. If people joined up to fight in Iraq, they weren't defending America. America was never under threat from Iraq, and the Iraqi war machine never loomed over the US. Hundreds of thousands of people have died in Iraq due to that American misadventure, and Iraq did nothing to the US. It was also pretty clear for a long time that if you did sign up, you'd be sent to the warzone - and for the people that re-enlisted (like in the article), they shouldn't be as surprised as you suggest.
Similarly, it doesn't matter if you signed up to defend your country and were lied to, it still does not mean perpetrators get a pass on atrocities like the ones committed in Vietnam. No, not all soldiers did, but enough did to take that 'well-meaning' shine off.
The media also wasn't as unified as you suggest. I'm not even American and I saw plenty of different comedians mocking Powell's 'poster project' at the time, and there were plenty of American voices crying that there wasn't enough justification to invade Iraq. While there is some naivity to blame in going 'over there' (it's why the military recruit the young, after all), there is also some willful ignorance. To be clear, I don't think that soldiers are by default at fault, but at the same time, I don't agree with the current "never criticise a soldier" ethos coming out of the US at the moment. If it's as shit as you say, then soldiers should be coming back and telling everyone they can about the horror, and stopping kids from signing up, and generally that isn't happening.
In any case, if you want to risk your life in the service of your country, be a cop. You will directly serve the people in your community, and the greater country in general. If you want to fight for freedom, be a legal aid lawyer. Pay is as shit as the military, but you're directly helping people in need against forces they can't fight alone.
Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm surprised that this is somehow even passed the slightest political oversight. You need to be a special kind of bastard to ask some one who willingly signed up to get shot at while defending their country to pay back any amount of money they got paid for doing so. Wars aren't pretty, regardless of what you think about them, and especially about Iraq and Afghanistan never ever take it out on the soldiers, they are…
My understanding is that the US has a professional army. Why are they called "volunteers"? Over here, a volunteer is someone who voluntarily joins earlier than required to begin his mandatory army service. People who join a job are all volunteers of course, but that's not remarkable.
Its called volunteer because there is mandatory service or conscription in other countries.
Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses
#140Honestly, this story is just sad. I understand that there was fraud involved in order to incentivize soldiers to reenlist, but it's not their fault; It was the people who manipulated them into reenlisting.
I definitely think in this case the government should "forgive" this debt - and they probably will. VA benefits are already pretty flimsy, our vets have it hard enough.