The Best Way to Not Get Tenure • Hacker News Board

Re: The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

#121

Post by heleph » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 8:42 AM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #80

seibelj wrote: post #54

I work in industry, but the key to getting stuff done in a hierarchical organization is tact . I think he is a poor politician, and is clearly very unhappy about being denied tenure. I think putting out feelers and going about a new job more quietly would be more effective. Hypothetically, let's say you (the person reading this comment) want to make a big change in your organization. You identified a problem, and hon…

I'd agree that the way to appeal to management is to build relationships & grassroots support in the organization. But the way to appeal to the market (which seems to be his current situation now, since he seems to be looking for a new job) is to make a big splash, take credit for all the things you've done, define yourself in terms of what you'd most like to do, and then wait for the calls to come in. The difference…

The group of people you're working with may not be as mutable as you think. I've been working in my programming language community in the city where I live for about ten years. There are people I have worked with before at pretty much all the really attractive places that do the language I have the most expertise with. Probably people who know people I've worked with at many of the others too.

Re: The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

#122

Post by blazespin » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 8:48 AM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #54

I work in industry, but the key to getting stuff done in a hierarchical organization is tact . I think he is a poor politician, and is clearly very unhappy about being denied tenure. I think putting out feelers and going about a new job more quietly would be more effective. Hypothetically, let's say you (the person reading this comment) want to make a big change in your organization. You identified a problem, and hon…

Absolutely! And to be really good at this you need to learn to be tactful and diplomatic in all aspects of your life. Live and brief this philosophy towards all of your interactions with others. Become a politician.

Re: The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

#123

Post by blazespin » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 8:51 AM UTC

sametmax wrote: post #104

seibelj wrote: post #54

I work in industry, but the key to getting stuff done in a hierarchical organization is tact . I think he is a poor politician, and is clearly very unhappy about being denied tenure. I think putting out feelers and going about a new job more quietly would be more effective. Hypothetically, let's say you (the person reading this comment) want to make a big change in your organization. You identified a problem, and hon…

You know it seems obvious to you but I spend the last 10 years on the job knowing absolutely nothing about this. I'm a programmer and I have good social skills. As a trainer, talking in public comes naturally, as a team leader, I'm also quite good in conducting meetings and driving the team efforts. But I have ZERO political skills, and I couldn't understand why. Reading your comment is like finally getting the missi…

The problem with this approach is that it's tricky to take credit for when you get your way because you've done it so quietly. You have to have an organization and leadership that is wise enough to recognize what you've done.

Re: The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

#124

Post by endymi0n » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 8:54 AM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #54

I work in industry, but the key to getting stuff done in a hierarchical organization is tact . I think he is a poor politician, and is clearly very unhappy about being denied tenure. I think putting out feelers and going about a new job more quietly would be more effective. Hypothetically, let's say you (the person reading this comment) want to make a big change in your organization. You identified a problem, and hon…

While you're 100% right, the key word to me here is "hierarchical organization" - and I remember my history teacher, the best I've ever had. She was demanding, on fire all the time - and most of other students and teachers hated her, but she was just extremely passionate and uncompromising, teaching from first principles (I've never learned as much from a teacher while in school). This tends to set mediocre people off, and she got really bitter in the end. All the skills OP is showing make him a bad fit for large places full of B and C people (i.e. all of academia and corporations) - while his healthy self-esteem, passion, a learning and teaching spirit, great writing, aspiration and the drive for simplicity and good UX (like in his courses) make him a perfect fit as a founder or early startup employee. He should be prepared to fight an uphill battle if he tries to stay in academia full time. If I were him, I'd try to do an industry career first before returning to teaching, I'm going down that route as well. Even my all-time hero of academia Feynman helped build the atomic bomb before returning to teaching first semesters.

Re: The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

#125

Post by crawfordcomeaux » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 9:03 AM UTC

sametmax wrote: post #104

seibelj wrote: post #54

I work in industry, but the key to getting stuff done in a hierarchical organization is tact . I think he is a poor politician, and is clearly very unhappy about being denied tenure. I think putting out feelers and going about a new job more quietly would be more effective. Hypothetically, let's say you (the person reading this comment) want to make a big change in your organization. You identified a problem, and hon…

You know it seems obvious to you but I spend the last 10 years on the job knowing absolutely nothing about this. I'm a programmer and I have good social skills. As a trainer, talking in public comes naturally, as a team leader, I'm also quite good in conducting meetings and driving the team efforts. But I have ZERO political skills, and I couldn't understand why. Reading your comment is like finally getting the missi…

Agreed. Being political is a ton of work. I find doing what OP suggests, which amounts to silently taking responsibility for other people's feelings instead of openly communicating about them, to be taxing as hell. Putting on an emotional mask usually is.

Being "political" in this sense is a codependent behavior.

Instead of operating out of fear of others' reactions, I prefer to give people the space they need to feel their anger, embarrassment, etc. by checking in with them over how they feel & empathizing with them.

I'll also agree with OP that approaching people 1-on-1 about big changes is much easier than putting someone on the spot to be open about & own their emotions in front of a group of people. The group's likely been trained to "act professional" by hiding their emotions as opposed to being professional by producing quality work. Sadly, that's not the sort of culture typically found in a business.

The last engineer I worked with taught me a similar lesson after one of our last meetings: "You lost the moment you became emotional. Don't ever let people see your feelings in a meeting like that."

He was right about one thing: a group of "professionals" hates emotions. Go find a group of emotionally mature adults to work with & work on your own emotional maturity. Here are some hints for how to work on yourself that also acts as a list of mindsets to spot in others:

- nobody makes you feel anything - you have a choice how to respond emotionally to all thing, though the amount of time your brain gives you to spot the choice may be unnoticeably small - that spot can grow with practice (mindfulness meditation) - whatever you're feeling in the moment is ok...you're allowed to feel it - unpleasant feelings signal a fundamental human need going unmet...find the need & address/accommodate it - everyone's doing the best they can and always have been...if someone isn't doing the best they can, the real culprit is you not accepting someone - own your feelings...don't defend them, especially by blaming them on other people. - apply all of this to every single person, including the worst of people. - read "Nonviolent Communication" https://www.amazon.com/Nonviolent-Communication-Language-Lif...

Re: The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

#126

Post by bachmeier » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 9:03 AM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #54

I work in industry, but the key to getting stuff done in a hierarchical organization is tact . I think he is a poor politician, and is clearly very unhappy about being denied tenure. I think putting out feelers and going about a new job more quietly would be more effective. Hypothetically, let's say you (the person reading this comment) want to make a big change in your organization. You identified a problem, and hon…

We can carry this a bit further. How does someone lacking these skills deal with students? I don't know all the details of his case, but I wonder how he handled grading inquiries and disputes with students, and how willing he was to adjust his teaching to meet the needs of the students.

And just to be clear, I'm well aware of claims (right or wrong) that teaching doesn't matter, but this is different from student evaluations of teaching.

Re: The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

#127

Post by mruniverse » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 9:14 AM UTC

endymi0n wrote: post #124

seibelj wrote: post #54

I work in industry, but the key to getting stuff done in a hierarchical organization is tact . I think he is a poor politician, and is clearly very unhappy about being denied tenure. I think putting out feelers and going about a new job more quietly would be more effective. Hypothetically, let's say you (the person reading this comment) want to make a big change in your organization. You identified a problem, and hon…

While you're 100% right, the key word to me here is "hierarchical organization" - and I remember my history teacher, the best I've ever had. She was demanding, on fire all the time - and most of other students and teachers hated her, but she was just extremely passionate and uncompromising, teaching from first principles (I've never learned as much from a teacher while in school). This tends to set mediocre people of…

I think no matter how good you are, you need to have people skills. You may be the best there is for this moment in time, but there's always someone better. And besides, you usually need a lot of people to do something sustaining.

Re: The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

#128

Post by quanticle » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 9:18 AM UTC

psyc wrote: post #33

Kind of hilarious how many comments in this thread already echo the mentality he's opposing. Get in line. Don't rock the boat. Don't complain about your lot. And you probably deserve what you got, because it's what you got. (Aka Just World Fallacy.)

But, on the other hand, if one person around is a jerk, they're a jerk. But if everyone around you is a jerk, maybe you're the jerk.

Re: The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

#129

Post by twblalock » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 9:47 AM UTC

Academics realize that when they grant tenure to someone, that person is likely to be their coworker for the next several decades.

This guy may very well be brilliant in his field, but he is clearly not a good fit for the department he was in. Quite frankly, he seems to be abrasive and a bit of a dick. He also seems inexcusably naive about how academia works, considering how long he has been an academic. Why would any rational person in his department guarantee him the job security to stick around for the rest of his career?

Why would anyone want to hire him after the unprofessional and petulant display he just posted on the web?

Re: The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

#130

Post by gaius » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 10:06 AM UTC

adrianratnapala wrote: post #92

nostrademons wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd agree that the way to appeal to management is to build relationships & grassroots support in the organization. But the way to appeal to the market (which seems to be his current situation now, since he seems to be looking for a new job) is to make a big splash, take credit for all the things you've done, define yourself in terms of what you'd most like to do, and then wait for the calls to come in. The difference…

This also explains how Trump increased republican primary turnout while upsetting republicans. It's not that there are more trumpists than traditional republicans (the general election is proving that). It's that just that Trump did have plenty of support from outside the party that he could pull into the primary.

It's also how Corbyn has an iron grip on the Labour Party without the support of most Labour MPs.