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The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

blue.cse.buffalo.edu

71–80 of 215 posts

Re: The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

#71
post #26

I read the whole article and it's very hard to judge the correctness of most of the article's claims. Most importantly, it's hard to judge the most important thing: the author's own research. However, I can say that there are different ways to interpret things. The author sees tenure as a way to establish obedience to the unwritten rules of the department. Based on my knowledge of academia, including friends who were…

I agree with this. But research isn't everything. And there are at least some hints and signs that this person doesn't know how to get along with colleagues. > I worked really hard to bring an exciting and rigorous operating systems class to UB. Why did this effort require working "really hard"? Was it because of obstructionist, jealous, or stupid colleagues? Or people who wanted a boring and unrigourous course inste…

It's not clear to me whether the curriculum work as all his vision or whether that was a fight, or he simply felt that others didn't view it as something helpful to his tenure case. It's not even clear whether it was all his vision or whether he was mostly trying to volunteer to lead the effort.

Every department is different, but I've definitely seen cases where the expectation is that you wait until you have tenure to participate in some changes or take on service work.

You're absolutely right about respecting others, but from his perspective others in the department also should at least listen to him, so it's hard to say whether "speaking out" is fighting or just trying to voice what he believes - which he should do if he does believe it would be helpful. (Doesn't mean he has to "win", but stopping speaking out or questioning things leads to problems.)

> Everything listed under "speaking out" gives me the same vibe. > then encouraging a student petition and getting your name in a local paper about the incident? That's just asking for trouble.

On the whole, it sounds like there's a clear view he's "loud" about his work, and this sounds like the biggest probem.

Re: The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

#72
post #22
post #2

This article has a powerful and important point to make. But much of the strength of an argument rests on the author's evaluation of his own contributions which is almost unfailingly positive. The article would be even more effective if accompanied by statement from one or more of the eight department members who voted against granting tenure.

He obviously pissed off his department, and so they voted with an aim to punishing him. He's a fool not to appeal it, though. If he appeals then the decision will be made by people outside of his department who won't have the same emotional stakes in the decision. Rage quit after you win your appeal, if you must! $3,000,000 in funding, most of it still active is astonishing ( https://blue.cse.buffalo.edu/proposals/ )…

I was also wondering about his chance at appeal, but it's not clear how close he was:

> I knew that I had made a few enemies, but I was surprised that the final vote was so lopsided: 6 yays, 2 abstainers, and 8 nays.

What's the bar for passing? A majority of yeas? A plurality? Is there any sort of standard or is it different from school to school?

Re: The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

#73
post #70
post #54

I work in industry, but the key to getting stuff done in a hierarchical organization is tact . I think he is a poor politician, and is clearly very unhappy about being denied tenure. I think putting out feelers and going about a new job more quietly would be more effective. Hypothetically, let's say you (the person reading this comment) want to make a big change in your organization. You identified a problem, and hon…

I wonder if there is any professional psychology on this kind of thing (link me!) but my layman observation is that most organizations tend toward median smoothing at best or lowest common denominator at worst for performance. That is of course not how you achieve high performance. But high performance scares lower performance, the conflict is bidirectional. From the article it's pretty obvious he was a high performe…

It's just tough to say whether he was truly "high impact" from his own article, giving his own opinions. Perhaps the research wasn't that good, perhaps the classes weren't that amazing. I don't know. Regardless, no one wants to work with someone who thinks they are god's gift to the world, even if they are! Which is where political / people / social skills can help immensely in avoiding career ending mistakes.

Re: The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

#74
post #54

I work in industry, but the key to getting stuff done in a hierarchical organization is tact . I think he is a poor politician, and is clearly very unhappy about being denied tenure. I think putting out feelers and going about a new job more quietly would be more effective. Hypothetically, let's say you (the person reading this comment) want to make a big change in your organization. You identified a problem, and hon…

> the key to getting stuff done in a hierarchical organization is tact. I think he was a poor politician

> Rocking the boat publicly (as this post clearly shows he is OK with) is not the mark of good political skills.

You're not wrong.

However shouldn't we be asking ourselves why we are requiring such skills?

The truth is that being a good politician has an inverse relationship with being a geek.

Peter Thiel has been pointing this out for many years. He asks, do we really have scientists anymore? Or are they really bureaucrats and politicians pretending to be scientists?

I am convinced it is the latter. I think we have whole universities filled with cargo cult science.

This relates neatly with some awkward facts about the modern education system.

For all the extraordinary efforts and feats of intellectual prowess it is also extraordinary how little they practically achieve. The number of breakthroughs has dramatically declined. Once you get past the PR bullshit and backslapping there is very little actually happening in many places in the 'innovation economy'.

Take nanotech. I am not aware of any advances that make their appearance in a consumer's home. I can think only of a handful of niche applications like expensive hydrophobic coatings. If the advances were occurring in the factories we should be seeing more refined low cost goods on a massive scale. Is that actually happening? I don't know that it is. We've been promised a lot and been waiting for long time.

Take biotech. Nothing. Just nothing. I think the last biotechnology I interacted with was a yogurt. Can anybody name a single biotech invention or innovation that actually exists in people's houses? In the 50s and 60s we had the Green Revolution, that counts. However the price of food has been rising considerably for several years now. There is certainly no food product that I consume that has become much cheaper.

The discovery of DNA is at least half a century ago. Despite much fanfare about CRISPR, why should we be sure that this time biologists are bringing home the bacon? Is anybody willing to bet that in ten years time there will be GM cool pets, much cheaper food, much cheaper quality wood for building from GM trees? I would not take that bet.

What about energy? Willing to bet your energy bills get much lower in the future?

tldr; Maybe a whole lot of people are totally full of shit. The basic metric of progress is that things get cheaper, but they're not, so it isn't happening. If you're not willing to bet that prices decrease then maybe your confidence in the future of invention/innovation is misplaced.

Re: The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

#75
post #54

I work in industry, but the key to getting stuff done in a hierarchical organization is tact . I think he is a poor politician, and is clearly very unhappy about being denied tenure. I think putting out feelers and going about a new job more quietly would be more effective. Hypothetically, let's say you (the person reading this comment) want to make a big change in your organization. You identified a problem, and hon…

" I think he is a poor politician, and is clearly very unhappy about being denied tenure."

Paul Graham, Why Nerds are Unpopular: http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

Re: The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

#76
post #54

I work in industry, but the key to getting stuff done in a hierarchical organization is tact . I think he is a poor politician, and is clearly very unhappy about being denied tenure. I think putting out feelers and going about a new job more quietly would be more effective. Hypothetically, let's say you (the person reading this comment) want to make a big change in your organization. You identified a problem, and hon…

> the key to getting stuff done in a hierarchical organization is tact. I think he was a poor politician > Rocking the boat publicly (as this post clearly shows he is OK with) is not the mark of good political skills . You're not wrong. However shouldn't we be asking ourselves why we are requiring such skills? The truth is that being a good politician has an inverse relationship with being a geek. Peter Thiel has bee…

Being a good manager means managing people. Dealing with people is easier when you have strong people skills. Conversely, if you put someone who has a toxic personality in charge of an organization, you might destroy the organization.

Again, I'm not saying anything about his talent, because it's impossible to know without hearing all sides, which I seriously doubt will happen. I'm saying that the article, his opinions, his actions, and from what his version of events are, is sending signals that he cannot get along with his superiors / peers in a way that is mutually constructive and beneficial.

Honestly, industry might be better for him, if he can find a benefactor willing to finance his research. But academia is petty and political, and from what I'm reading, his odds don't look good.

Re: The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

#77
post #22
post #2

This article has a powerful and important point to make. But much of the strength of an argument rests on the author's evaluation of his own contributions which is almost unfailingly positive. The article would be even more effective if accompanied by statement from one or more of the eight department members who voted against granting tenure.

He obviously pissed off his department, and so they voted with an aim to punishing him. He's a fool not to appeal it, though. If he appeals then the decision will be made by people outside of his department who won't have the same emotional stakes in the decision. Rage quit after you win your appeal, if you must! $3,000,000 in funding, most of it still active is astonishing ( https://blue.cse.buffalo.edu/proposals/ )…

The grass ain't greener anywhere else.

The politics may not be better anywhere else, but pretty much anywhere is friendlier to life, including grass, than Buffalo.

Re: The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

#78
post #54

I work in industry, but the key to getting stuff done in a hierarchical organization is tact . I think he is a poor politician, and is clearly very unhappy about being denied tenure. I think putting out feelers and going about a new job more quietly would be more effective. Hypothetically, let's say you (the person reading this comment) want to make a big change in your organization. You identified a problem, and hon…

There's a book about this: Leading Quietly.

Re: The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

#79
post #73
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if there is any professional psychology on this kind of thing (link me!) but my layman observation is that most organizations tend toward median smoothing at best or lowest common denominator at worst for performance. That is of course not how you achieve high performance. But high performance scares lower performance, the conflict is bidirectional. From the article it's pretty obvious he was a high performe…

It's just tough to say whether he was truly "high impact" from his own article, giving his own opinions. Perhaps the research wasn't that good, perhaps the classes weren't that amazing. I don't know. Regardless, no one wants to work with someone who thinks they are god's gift to the world, even if they are! Which is where political / people / social skills can help immensely in avoiding career ending mistakes.

I was basing that after watching a few of these after reading the article where it is linked: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLk97mPCd8nvbxGGfkYkBX.... I would have loved to had someone explain all these relevant things so clearly. I learned some stuff just from watching the few now even though I am a very senior internet person in industrial terms.

I did CS a rather strange way via military college so that's not the best sample, but when I took a programming languages class over the summer at Arizona State they had 300 students (yes really) in the lecture hall trying to learn C, C++, Scheme, and Prolog for the Sophomore/Junior level course. It was a total shit show, and if that had been my path to earning a degree and becoming a programmer I'd have hightailed it out of college. It's also an obvious head drop for diversity in the field. I've heard similar horror stories from colleagues from non-top tier CS schools. I'm inclined to believe he found and addressed problems, and had demonstrable success.

Re: The Best Way to Not Get Tenure

#80
post #54

I work in industry, but the key to getting stuff done in a hierarchical organization is tact . I think he is a poor politician, and is clearly very unhappy about being denied tenure. I think putting out feelers and going about a new job more quietly would be more effective. Hypothetically, let's say you (the person reading this comment) want to make a big change in your organization. You identified a problem, and hon…

I'd agree that the way to appeal to management is to build relationships & grassroots support in the organization. But the way to appeal to the market (which seems to be his current situation now, since he seems to be looking for a new job) is to make a big splash, take credit for all the things you've done, define yourself in terms of what you'd most like to do, and then wait for the calls to come in.

The difference is on whether the set of people you work with is mutable or immutable. If it's immutable, you better preserve relationships, because you'll be working with them in the future, regardless of what happens, and you need them to implement your plans. But if it's mutable, then when people dislike you, just find new people. Stake out a territory in idea-space, and then just adjust the set of folks you hang out with until everyone agrees with you.

Voice or exit. If you want voice, you've got to speak to what the people around you will hear. If you're willing to exit (or going to anyway), you can say what you want and swap the people out until you find the set who hears you.

Interestingly, the current U.S. presidential race is a perfect example of this. Trump is following the people-are-mutable, if-they-don't-like-you-fuck-'em strategy. He's burning bridges with everyone who criticizes him. And he's probably doing this because it has worked for him in business - when he stiffs a contractor, sexually harasses an employee, or loses an investor's money, there is always somebody else willing to get in line behind them. Clinton, however, is the consummate relationship builder. She's carefully worked across the aisle through decades of experience in Washington, such that she's got all the really important people supporting her. Trump's strategy works great at rallies, where he can speak only to the people who agree with him, but fails across the entire electorate, where he has to deal with a pre-existing composition that isn't going anywhere.

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