Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses • Hacker News Board

Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses

#11

Post by withdavidli » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 10:44 PM UTC

CalChris wrote: post #3

“We’d be more than happy to absolve these people of their debts. We just can’t do it. We’d be breaking the law.” Ok. There's a law, a bad law that needs to be changed. Is Congress so dysfunctional it can't fix this monstrosity?

Yes. Think about the 911 bill. Taking a decade to help cover medical costs of first responders and those that helped dig out dead bodies and hoping to find survivors. It was so sad to see Jon Stewart talk about this years later with only one person from the original panel because two were too ill now to show up and one died.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3350433/John-Stewart...

Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses

#12

Post by Skeptique » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 10:45 PM UTC

apsec112 wrote: post #7

serg_chernata wrote: post #2

So much of war is already unapologetically about about money. This is just adding insult to injury.

Looking down Wikipedia's list of active conflicts ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflict... ), it's hard to believe that money is a primary cause of any of them. I'm sure someone somewhere is making a profit, but that's different from the conflict being "about money".

It would be poor press to announce that a war is about money, but the veneer of pretense is thin. The Syrian war, especially given Russia's involvement is almost certainly about securing passage for natural gas pipelines.

Who thinks the Iraq war was actually about Freedom? That might have been the rallying cry but it was about securing access to oil and securing massive re-building contracts and/or reparation money. Many argue that the 1990s stock market boom was a direct result of the US getting $10/barrel oil via the Iraq war reparation deal, where they repaid the US for the costs of having to attack the US.

Any war where people suddenly have an interest in saving humanity should be viewed very skeptically, since there are hundreds of crises of freedom around the world. If the crisis happens to be on top of a giant oil field, well, then there may be some conflating variable.

Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses

#13

Post by erentz » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 10:48 PM UTC

It's not clear from the article how this situation came to be.

Were these soldiers told how much they would receive before enlisting? If so surely that is a contract and they don't have to repay. It only makes sense if they ALL received more than they were told and all didn't report it. But ~10,000 people doing this doesn't make sense.

Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses

#14

Post by apsec112 » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 10:52 PM UTC

Skeptique wrote: post #12

apsec112 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking down Wikipedia's list of active conflicts ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflict... ), it's hard to believe that money is a primary cause of any of them. I'm sure someone somewhere is making a profit, but that's different from the conflict being "about money".

It would be poor press to announce that a war is about money, but the veneer of pretense is thin. The Syrian war, especially given Russia's involvement is almost certainly about securing passage for natural gas pipelines. Who thinks the Iraq war was actually about Freedom? That might have been the rallying cry but it was about securing access to oil and securing massive re-building contracts and/or reparation money.…

"The Syrian war, especially given Russia's involvement is almost certainly about securing passage for natural gas pipelines."

Do you have a cite for that? No one on any side is building pipelines in Syria anytime soon, because, well, war. Also, pretty sure if I told Suheil al-Hassan or Abu Mohammad al-Julani they were fighting for natural gas pipelines, they'd knock my teeth out.

Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses

#15

Post by wallace_f » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 10:56 PM UTC

serg_chernata wrote: post #2

So much of war is already unapologetically about about money. This is just adding insult to injury.

I used to think this was more like a conspiracy. It's very far from it, though. Years ago, even one of the most powerful US Government officials, who used to be labelled the most powerful man in the world, and the US's highest ranking technocrat, Alan Greenspan, wrote that the Iraq War was largely about oil.

Greenspan was an economist, and economists sometime us an analogy of looking at macro topics through the framework of a household, i.e. a national budget vs a household budget. Using that same framework, if one neighbor went to war with another over natural resources on their block and declared "he had a gun, a very big gun," as the reason -- and conveniently after the house was broken into but with nothing connecting the perpetrators to the victim, that would be clearly illegal, and probably viewed as insane.

I think those of us from America are very lucky to live in a country that places high relative value (though far from perfect history) on human rights and civil liberties, and it's likely a large reason we are so successful. I want us to keep improving on it instead of devolving into something less.

Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses

#16

Post by rileymat2 » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 10:56 PM UTC

"Robert D’Andrea, a retired Army major and Iraq veteran, was told to return a $20,000 bonus he received in 2008 because auditors could not find a copy of the contract he says he signed."

How is this possible? If private businesses could do this, it would be mayhem.

Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses

#17

Post by ZanyProgrammer » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 10:58 PM UTC

Skeptique wrote: post #12

apsec112 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking down Wikipedia's list of active conflicts ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflict... ), it's hard to believe that money is a primary cause of any of them. I'm sure someone somewhere is making a profit, but that's different from the conflict being "about money".

It would be poor press to announce that a war is about money, but the veneer of pretense is thin. The Syrian war, especially given Russia's involvement is almost certainly about securing passage for natural gas pipelines. Who thinks the Iraq war was actually about Freedom? That might have been the rallying cry but it was about securing access to oil and securing massive re-building contracts and/or reparation money.…

Also a Russian warm water port in the Med. And just extending their influence because Assad father and son have traditionally been allies.

Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses

#18

Post by Negative1 » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 11:02 PM UTC

Wasn't clear from the article; did someone or a group of people break the law so that these ("illegal") bonuses could be paid? Basically, who (or what org) will be held accountable for this so that it won't happen again?

Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses

#19

Post by ZanyProgrammer » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 11:05 PM UTC

As an Army vet myself, the truth is is that the Army will never miss an opportunity for fucking you over. Its the nature of the system. If you can make it to 20 years, you are some combination of exceptional/lucky/broken from years of fuckery.

"We just can’t do it. We’d be breaking the law"

Yeah, I'm sure the California National Guard tried really, really hard not to go after their bonuses.

Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses

#20

Post by Skeptique » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 11:06 PM UTC

apsec112 wrote: post #14

Skeptique wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be poor press to announce that a war is about money, but the veneer of pretense is thin. The Syrian war, especially given Russia's involvement is almost certainly about securing passage for natural gas pipelines. Who thinks the Iraq war was actually about Freedom? That might have been the rallying cry but it was about securing access to oil and securing massive re-building contracts and/or reparation money.…

"The Syrian war, especially given Russia's involvement is almost certainly about securing passage for natural gas pipelines." Do you have a cite for that? No one on any side is building pipelines in Syria anytime soon, because, well, war. Also, pretty sure if I told Suheil al-Hassan or Abu Mohammad al-Julani they were fighting for natural gas pipelines, they'd knock my teeth out.

Lets be serious here. Do you think the US or Russia will announce on their newspapers their actual interests and actually note money/commodities/whatever? This is big business on a global scale with decade-long goals. The pipelines can wait some years.

But lets say you are right -- do you think Russia is suddenly interested in some far-away humanitarian conflict or...perhaps there is something more?

Also, given the vast injustices around the world, any opinions on why the US decided to suddenly instill freedom in Iraq in 1992?