Update Regarding DDoS Event Against Dyn Managed DNS on Oct 21

Post by philiphodgen » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 4:19 PM UTC

zebraflask wrote: post #64

philiphodgen wrote: post #57

The free market will solve this problem with an existing and efficient tool. Tort law. A few wins in court will do the trick. Here is how. A victim of a DDoS attack sues manufacturers, distributors, and retailers of that product for selling a defective product--the IoT device used in the IoT attack. As soon as there is a win, the product disappears. Distributors and retailers must now price in the externality of the…

That's a common, if naive, misconception. How exactly is a plaintiff going to enforce a judgment against a manufacturer overseas, or against an Internet-enabled thermostat? The US legal system, at least, was designed for quite a few things, but enforcing Econ 101 was not one of them.

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 4:21 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #65

natch wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say this as if it is just one device used in these attacks. And as if it will be easy to stroll over to the owner's location and determine the supply chain of that one device. And as if it will be easy to collect from the Chinese manufacturer who probably folded last week and reopened under a different name for completely different reasons.

On top of that, that isn't generally how liability works. If you make a crappy garage door that anyone can open, the people who bought one might be able to require you to fix it, or possibly make claims for losses if things are stolen. But when some vandals steal spray paint and sledge hammers and smash up the neighborhood, the vandals are the ones responsible for smashing up the neighborhood.

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 4:24 PM UTC

ComodoHacker wrote: post #67

philiphodgen wrote: post #57

The free market will solve this problem with an existing and efficient tool. Tort law. A few wins in court will do the trick. Here is how. A victim of a DDoS attack sues manufacturers, distributors, and retailers of that product for selling a defective product--the IoT device used in the IoT attack. As soon as there is a win, the product disappears. Distributors and retailers must now price in the externality of the…

Hey, can one sue manufacturer of a stolen car that was used to rob and kill people (and returned to the owner afterwards of you wish)? Does it matter if that car model was easier or harder to hijack?

Post by natch » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 4:37 PM UTC

philiphodgen wrote: post #63

natch wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say this as if it is just one device used in these attacks. And as if it will be easy to stroll over to the owner's location and determine the supply chain of that one device. And as if it will be easy to collect from the Chinese manufacturer who probably folded last week and reopened under a different name for completely different reasons.

This is why tort lawyers sue distributors and retailers in the USA. They are here and they have insurance. Once there is a court decision, a rational seller (oh, Amazon hypothetically) will understand that selling fly-by-night small manufacturer items is fraught with peril. The offending items disappear from the marketplace.

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 22, 2016, 4:44 PM UTC

philiphodgen wrote: post #63

natch wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say this as if it is just one device used in these attacks. And as if it will be easy to stroll over to the owner's location and determine the supply chain of that one device. And as if it will be easy to collect from the Chinese manufacturer who probably folded last week and reopened under a different name for completely different reasons.

This is why tort lawyers sue distributors and retailers in the USA. They are here and they have insurance. Once there is a court decision, a rational seller (oh, Amazon hypothetically) will understand that selling fly-by-night small manufacturer items is fraught with peril. The offending items disappear from the marketplace.