1177 BC – The Year Civilization Collapsed [video]
21–30 of 72 posts
Re: 1177 BC – The Year Civilization Collapsed [video]
#22I like the "it's complicated" theory, but it also a bit of a cop-out. Can we not have a meta-theory? Here are three candidates: 1) Climate change. Doesn't directly cause famines because people adapt; but the adaptation might be e.g to become wondering marauders. Thus war, destruction famine etc. 2) Technological change. Iron-working upset existing power balances. The political results were different in different plac…
Re: 1177 BC – The Year Civilization Collapsed [video]
#23I like the "it's complicated" theory, but it also a bit of a cop-out. Can we not have a meta-theory? Here are three candidates: 1) Climate change. Doesn't directly cause famines because people adapt; but the adaptation might be e.g to become wondering marauders. Thus war, destruction famine etc. 2) Technological change. Iron-working upset existing power balances. The political results were different in different plac…
It seems to be an inherent thing of civilizations to collapse.
The Collapse of Complex Societies https://www.amazon.com/Collapse-Complex-Societies-Studies-Ar...
The collapse of our society seem to be inevitable. You don't have to believe is but I don't think we can beat mathematics in the long term:
"There is No Steady State Economy (except at a very basic level)" http://ourfiniteworld.com/2011/02/21/there-is-no-steady-stat...
Limits to Growth–At our doorstep, but not recognized http://www.resilience.org/stories/2014-02-12/limits-to-growt...
Wealth And Energy Consumption Are Inseparable http://www.declineoftheempire.com/2012/01/wealth-and-energy-...
Galactic-Scale Energy http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/07/galactic-scale-e...
Quote: "But let’s not overlook the key point: continued growth in energy use becomes physically impossible within conceivable timeframes."
Re: 1177 BC – The Year Civilization Collapsed [video]
#24tl;dw please?
The cultural collapse was so total that with writing systems disappeared. Greek had to develop reading and writing again.
Re: 1177 BC – The Year Civilization Collapsed [video]
#25Re: 1177 BC – The Year Civilization Collapsed [video]
#26tl;dw please?
He suggests that not one thing, but a series of disasters one after the other caused it.
The reasons: Sea People(invaders/raiders) Famine Drought Earth Quake 'Storms'
Since the societies were 'globalized' and reliant on one another, these disasters happening one after another, caused domino effect.
Re: 1177 BC – The Year Civilization Collapsed [video]
#27The treatment of the collapse itself is fairly shallow. I know the collapse is still mysterious and comparatively little is known about it, but that's why a book like this should be so interesting. Surely there is enough information to fill a comparatively short book like this. The ever mysterious Sea People's are mentioned of course, but other than noting that they weren't just one group and that the Egyptians defeated one group of invaders he says little. There is the usual "they may have been from here, or perhaps there" but it doesn't go into much detail about the different theories. The possible causes of the collapse aren't discussed much either. Basically it says "stuff fell apart and here are some examples". I know that much of this stuff is far from settled but discussing the evidence and arguments for various theories is a good approach. Talking about how new civilizations arose after the collapse would have been interesting too; much more than endless detail about pre-collapse civilizations like the Minoans.
Re: 1177 BC – The Year Civilization Collapsed [video]
#28tl;dw please?
Summary:
* It is assumed that there was no single reason for the "collapse of civilization" (in Aegean, Eastern Mediterrean, Eygpt, and Near East) between ~1200-1000 BC. At the time, it seems there were droughts, famines, earthquakes, invaders, and rebellions; havoc was caused, international trade routes cut, and many cities were destroyed.
* Parallels drawn at end to modern society with exception of the migration and/or invasion of "sea people" (actually people from several areas).
* Eric then at end says that he's not in a position to provide advice for what we should do, but seems to suggest that when history runs its course, it is likely that good things come from the destruction, citing the Alphabet and monotheism as coming after the 1200-1000 BC collapse (end Bronze Age) and fresh growth coming after a large forest fire.
I think the forest fire at the end could have been left out. While I like the optimism he was trying to relay, I think that some could take it is a reason for actively trying to light the powder keg by causing further destabilization in order to bring about a renewal.
Also, the problem with comparing the dark ages then to what would happen today is that they weren't that bad:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Dark_Ages
Trade was not relied on as much as it is now for food, material to build shelter, fuel for transportation, etc.
Many countries today could not become self-sufficient without a great deal of death and disease if trade routes were cut off.
And, our civilization is more at risk because we rely on electronics and electricity. If a large portion of the electronic equipment were rendered unusable by a well-coordinated set of strong EMP's/nukes going off (unlikely), a very large coronal mass ejection (more likely), or cyberattack on the electrical grid (most likely), that would disable our water, food production, hospitals, and heating/cooling. Few have the resources they need to survive or even physical books to teach themselves anything that would be useful (plants in their area that are safe to eat, how to build weapons and hunt, how to find fresh water, remedies for disease using local plants). Many have not made social connections with neighbors.
Note: EMP/CME cannot be mitigated by storing an extra phone or computer in a Faraday cage, even if you were to have a few bikes to generate electricity for it. What are you going to do with it other than use a text editor to store recipes for roasted squirrel and dandelion stew?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3838433/The-D...
http://www.federaltimes.com/articles/emerging-focus-on-cyber...
Re: 1177 BC – The Year Civilization Collapsed [video]
#29Unfortunately I can't recommend the book. It's a fascinating subject, but ... Much/most of the book is devoted to what various Eastern Mediterranean civilizations were like before the Collapse of the Late Bronze Age. It's useful as an introduction so that you can get some idea of what collapsed, but it shouldn't be most of the book. The treatment of the collapse itself is fairly shallow. I know the collapse is still…
Re: 1177 BC – The Year Civilization Collapsed [video]
#30Unfortunately I can't recommend the book. It's a fascinating subject, but ... Much/most of the book is devoted to what various Eastern Mediterranean civilizations were like before the Collapse of the Late Bronze Age. It's useful as an introduction so that you can get some idea of what collapsed, but it shouldn't be most of the book. The treatment of the collapse itself is fairly shallow. I know the collapse is still…
Funny you should say that, because the author does in the book (by your description) what he describes happening in a systems collapse scenario:
[describing a systems collapse, 48:10] "It usually takes about a century, there's usually a dark age that happens right afterward. And when they're coming out of that dark age they start immortalizing the great period ... before them."