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Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter views Schiaparelli landing site

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Re: Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter views Schiaparelli landing site

#81
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah! When has exploring ever benefited anyone! No more exploration! The mission cost the citizens of Europe and Russia a bit over 1 Euro per person.

And how much return did the citizens of Europe and Russia get for this investment?

A better question is this: How much return did King Henry VII get from Columbus's expeditions?

The answer is nothing, because he rejected Columbus's request to fund his fleet.

Re: Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter views Schiaparelli landing site

#82
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah! When has exploring ever benefited anyone! No more exploration! The mission cost the citizens of Europe and Russia a bit over 1 Euro per person.

And how much return did the citizens of Europe and Russia get for this investment?

The same if not more. The way ESA operates, each Euro paid by a member country is supposed to come back to that country's economy via ESA contracts.

Re: Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter views Schiaparelli landing site

#83
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still amazed that it succeeded. I was prepared to bet quite a bit of money that at least one of the many quite complicated stages of the landing would fail. I'm happy I was wrong.

To me, the air bags[1] used to land the Spirit and Opportunity rovers seemed like a saner way to go than trying to deposit them gently directly on to the surface using a sky crane. The reported reason the sky crane was used for Curiosity is that it was too heavy for the air bag approach. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRCIzZHpFtY

But the Spirit and Opportunity EDL also involved retrorockets in addition to a heatshield, a drogue chute, a parachute and the airbags - it's just that the retrorocket part didn't have to be as precise as with Curiosity.

Re: Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter views Schiaparelli landing site

#84
post #35
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU has a population of over 500 million. For a program like this (assuming it's all from public funds), each citizen paid on average less than a cup of coffee costs at Starbucks. It's real money, but what pressing pan-European problem could you really solve with such a tiny budget?

Look at the economical situation of countries like Greece and Spain. That would be one starting point.

Spaniard here, the lander and the upcoming rover feature different instrumentation developed in Spain, something which has allowed extra funding for advancements in research and manufacturing capabilities, space-worthiness certification, etc. for our institutes, universities, and companies.

This experience both in term of facilities and human resources will allow us to better compete in the market of space application and other high-tech fields, which is exactly what our country needs.

Re: Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter views Schiaparelli landing site

#85
post #23

High visibility European space missions seem to have catastrophic failures a lot

Such as? Philae was a partial failure, certainly not catastrophic, but it was a "nice to have" addition to the Rosetta mission which as a whole was a huge success. Schiaparelli was an EDL engineering test and a landing failure was not exactly unexpected outcome. If the engineers can figure out what went wrong from the telemetry, it can probably be counted as a success. The actual beef of the mission is the Trace Gas Orbiter spacecraft that continues to function perfectly.

Unfortunately, in both cases people end up thinking that the whole mission has failed when actually just a small part of it did :(

Re: Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter views Schiaparelli landing site

#86
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the economical situation of countries like Greece and Spain. That would be one starting point.

According to the easily-found stats on Wikipedia [1,2], the MRO cost $720 million, whereas the Greek bailout given in 2010 (alone) was €110 ($119) billion . Notice the "m" in the first and the "b" in the second- your "starting point" is orders of magnitude beyond the resources we're talking about here. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Reconnaissance_Orbiter [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_government-deb…

Indeed, the entire ESA budget for this year is €5.2 billion, of which a third is Earth observation satellites.

http://www.esa.int/spaceinimages/Images/2016/01/ESA_budget_2...

Re: Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter views Schiaparelli landing site

#87
post #35
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU has a population of over 500 million. For a program like this (assuming it's all from public funds), each citizen paid on average less than a cup of coffee costs at Starbucks. It's real money, but what pressing pan-European problem could you really solve with such a tiny budget?

Look at the economical situation of countries like Greece and Spain. That would be one starting point.

(Shrug) Send the money to Greece, or bury it in a crater on Mars. What's the difference?

Re: Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter views Schiaparelli landing site

#88
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that both rovers were planned to last for 90 days each both of them outlasted their mission like a boss you can't say any of them failed, yes Spirit has failed but after 2269 days in operation. Opportunity by this time must be fueled by some dark magic since the darn thing out lasted it's planned mission by freaking 12 years.

https://xkcd.com/1504/

https://xkcd.com/695/

Re: Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter views Schiaparelli landing site

#90

> Estimates are that Schiaparelli dropped from a height of between 2 and 4 kilometres, therefore impacting at a considerable speed, greater than 300 km/h. Ouch. It will be interesting to read the results of the investigation as to why the landing thrusters turned off prematurely.

According to the landing sequence... http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/a23475/beagle-2-schiap... ...the lander was supposed to detach from the aeroshell at about 1km up. So if it fell from 2 to 4km up, that implies that it detached too early. This article: https://spaceflightnow.com/2016/10/20/last-data-from-schiapa... ...says that the telemetry shows that the engines did fire, for at least a few seconds. My unin…

> (Mars doesn't really do terminal velocities.)

It depends on many factors, but as an order of magnitude terminal velocity on Mars is about 1000 km/h (speed of sound on Earth at sea level).

https://spaceflightsystems.grc.nasa.gov/education/rocket/ter...

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