I want to print this out. Draw a giant middle finger on it. Then post it on the entry to my cube. So friggin badly. Take that you neatniks.
You and me both!
There’s magic in mess: Why you should embrace a disorderly desk
81–90 of 95 posts
Re: There’s magic in mess: Why you should embrace a disorderly desk
#82I feel like there's some parallel lurking here with software development. I've never seen a production codebase that doesn't have it's own share of clutter, mismash and rough edges similar to a disorganized desk. Moving business requirements, obscure edge cases, performance concerns all seem to creep into an "orderly" codebase. I don't think this applies to all software, things with a very long release/feedback cycle…
I had no idea that I would see this parallel as well when I started reading this article. I'm in a similar situation at my current job, we've got a few guys that want to go really crazy with OOP concepts (design patterns, going overboard with new technologies) from the first sign of a new issue/feature. It really causes a lot of problems though, when your business requirements change (or you encounter an edge case) a…
Yeah, that's a tough one since you're dealing with a culture issue and not a technical problem.
The only thing I've seen effective is prototyping a feature 2x and then taking the 2nd/3rd iteration. Finding time for that in a normal schedule is pretty hard though.
Another approach if you have the option is to build the feature as rapidly as possible(within reason here obviously) and deliver it out of band. It doesn't win you an immediate friends(and may even burn a few bridges) however if you can pull it off 2-3x then you can build a reputation of getting things done. This has the potential to backfire pretty significantly though if you can't get the rest of the dev team onboard so I would be very careful about employing it.
Re: There’s magic in mess: Why you should embrace a disorderly desk
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
I had no idea that I would see this parallel as well when I started reading this article. I'm in a similar situation at my current job, we've got a few guys that want to go really crazy with OOP concepts (design patterns, going overboard with new technologies) from the first sign of a new issue/feature. It really causes a lot of problems though, when your business requirements change (or you encounter an edge case) a…
Yeah, that's a tough one since you're dealing with a culture issue and not a technical problem. The only thing I've seen effective is prototyping a feature 2x and then taking the 2nd/3rd iteration. Finding time for that in a normal schedule is pretty hard though. Another approach if you have the option is to build the feature as rapidly as possible(within reason here obviously) and deliver it out of band. It doesn't…
I'm probably in the backfire mode, as I've proven I can get things done in a good way, quickly, so I was promoted and someone else demoted (so we've effectively switched positions).
3/4 of the team is on-board with the getting things done in a good way, and the other 1/4 wants to be a slow pain in the ass.
Re: There’s magic in mess: Why you should embrace a disorderly desk
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
I actually mean personal email, like trying to organize plans with my sister. My friends and family are somewhat resistant to task tracking software.
i star things that need a second look. but again those are mostly from automated systems or companies. human human communication is almost always through messaging apps. producthunt had this today https://www.producthunt.com/tech/owlie
So you don't need to actually use email and that's why you can get away with not being able to organise it?
Re: There’s magic in mess: Why you should embrace a disorderly desk
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
i star things that need a second look. but again those are mostly from automated systems or companies. human human communication is almost always through messaging apps. producthunt had this today https://www.producthunt.com/tech/owlie
So you don't need to actually use email and that's why you can get away with not being able to organise it?
if i had conversations in email regularly I would not sort them into folders. i dont sort IM conversations into folders.
no matter what, i rely on search. if i need to find something in facebook messenger, i use search. gmail, search. outlook, search.
if an email is important, i star it. if i need to plan with mother and sister, i send a message to a family IM group.
virtually every message i send is 1) through a routing abstraction layer on one of the two ends 2) instant messaging 3) social forum. direct email to email chitchat isnt a regular practice, but that doesnt mean i dont use email. email for me functions as a 1)compatibility layer between otherwise isolated systems 2) old school notification tray
Re: There’s magic in mess: Why you should embrace a disorderly desk
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
The worst I have seen is people using the Trash folder to store mail, without eve emptying it. At work, I once had to clean out about 10000 mails from user's mailbox and thought it polite to empty the trash. Oh, was she mad...
The first time I saw this I was floored. After seeing it a few times, I was curious: "what establishes this pattern?", "how do people arrive at thinking of the trash folder as an archive?" In most cases they are using the delete key something like a surrogate for the read/unread flag. Keeping the inbox 'clean' of old email. I tried testing with view filters set to only show unread email, but that didn't work because…
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Re: There’s magic in mess: Why you should embrace a disorderly desk
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, that's a tough one since you're dealing with a culture issue and not a technical problem. The only thing I've seen effective is prototyping a feature 2x and then taking the 2nd/3rd iteration. Finding time for that in a normal schedule is pretty hard though. Another approach if you have the option is to build the feature as rapidly as possible(within reason here obviously) and deliver it out of band. It doesn't…
I'm probably in the backfire mode, as I've proven I can get things done in a good way, quickly, so I was promoted and someone else demoted (so we've effectively switched positions). 3/4 of the team is on-board with the getting things done in a good way, and the other 1/4 wants to be a slow pain in the ass.
Yup, sounds like you're squarely in a dev culture war which is usually a bit above my pay grade. Hopefully you can find a way to bring them around since it seems you have somewhat of a consensus.
Unfortunately the times I've seen that it was usually only solved by splitting the teams onto other projects or the minority leaving the company.
Re: There’s magic in mess: Why you should embrace a disorderly desk
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you don't need to actually use email and that's why you can get away with not being able to organise it?
if i had conversations in email regularly I would not sort them into folders. i dont sort IM conversations into folders. no matter what, i rely on search. if i need to find something in facebook messenger, i use search. gmail, search. outlook, search. if an email is important, i star it. if i need to plan with mother and sister, i send a message to a family IM group. virtually every message i send is 1) through a rou…
> that doesnt mean i dont use email. email for me functions as a 1)compatibility layer between otherwise isolated systems 2) old school notification tray
So you don't actually use email as a communication system, in case you misunderstood my meaning. I'd be interested to see whether this is generally true for people who argue that they don't need to worry about what's in their inbox.
Re: There’s magic in mess: Why you should embrace a disorderly desk
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
if i had conversations in email regularly I would not sort them into folders. i dont sort IM conversations into folders. no matter what, i rely on search. if i need to find something in facebook messenger, i use search. gmail, search. outlook, search. if an email is important, i star it. if i need to plan with mother and sister, i send a message to a family IM group. virtually every message i send is 1) through a rou…
> that doesnt mean i dont use email. email for me functions as a 1)compatibility layer between otherwise isolated systems 2) old school notification tray So you don't actually use email as a communication system, in case you misunderstood my meaning. I'd be interested to see whether this is generally true for people who argue that they don't need to worry about what's in their inbox.
i dont sort any of my communication, on any platform, into hierarchical absolute folders. i search.
if i did hold conversations directly through emailemail, that would not change my lack of folders. i could see using gmail tags more aggressively.
the closest thing i have to folders are saved, predefined search queries based on parameters and conditions. the contents of those sort automatically based on metadata, some of which i apply by hand.
Re: There’s magic in mess: Why you should embrace a disorderly desk
#90I've got a hybrid method that works pretty well for me. May not be for everyone. I have:
L1 cache - stuff on my desk that needs to be paid or read in the next 30 days.
L2 cache - Bills that have been paid and docs that have been read, but things that might need to be referenced in the next year - in a banker's box next to my desk, completely unfiled. Just drop them in when paid/read.
RAM - At the end of the year, file the stuff in the banker's box into a small set of folders in a file cabinet or drawer.
Disk - At the end of the year, move last year's files into a banker's box and put it in the basement/garage/storage.
Also at the end of the year, take the box that's 7 years old to the professional shredder's place and destroy it.
I do have email folders for mailing lists. I find that if I don't, then searching brings up too many hits, and if I can narrow the search to a particular list, that will reduce the number of false positives. I have a rule per mailing list, so it's very easy to maintain.