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All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

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Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#641
post #495

No bad, but it still needs to be taught to keep to the right. Unless this is how people normally drive in the US ?

In my experience, American driver ed doesn't cover this much at all, at least when I learned (the late 1990s). There are a lot of people who think "I'm going exactly the speed limit" means they should hang out in the "fast" lane.

I have come to think this is coming from a certain righteous attitude. Everyone knows about the old norm of slower traffic to the right, but people give up on it when 1) why should I get behind that guy in the right lane who is driving slower than the limit, just so you can speed and 2) if you want to speed, find your own way through traffic, not my problem. There's also the variant of, I'm speeding and people are getting out of my way, why should I get out of your way because you decided to drive even faster than me. It just encourages faster and faster driving. I live where it's very common to see anything from -10 to +30 the limit. Which is just dangerous. The safest thing to do, is to stay where you are and let the fast guy find his way through or be forced to slow down. So I do kind of agree with this being an outdated norm that doesn't apply to today.

What you're taught in driver ed means nothing after a little time on the road dealing with the norms of other drivers and the inconveniences they impose on you. Nobody wants to be inconvenienced any more, even if it's the "right thing" to do.

Some what related, I feel I notice in last 10-20 years people absolutely refuse to miss their turn/exit. They will create a very dangerous situation swerving across lanes and cutting people off at the last second rather than saying "oh dang, I will need to do a U-turn ahead".

Another example I notice is, the use of a turn signal is an expectation of the right to change lanes. People actually get angry with thoughts like "I put on my turn signal, everyone else should slam on their brakes so I can change lanes because I need to turn now!"

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#642
post #627
post #533

From 00:50 to 01:10, why is the car driving in the left lane, when the right lane is clearly not turning? It's strange to see this behaviour as someone living in Germany, where you are supposed to, by default, drive in the right lane if you are not overtaking another car or there is a traffic jam... EDIT: also, did it turn into the wrong lane at 2:25-2:30? is this a security risk?

> also, did it turn into the wrong lane at 2:25-2:30? is this a security risk? Yes, totally a crash collision risk! I've witnessed this happened once in a Costco parking lot. Car A made a right turn onto the left lane of the crossing road and the oncoming car B didn't pay attention at the moment and bumped into it head on.

This is legal in California.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#643

From the car purchase page, it seems that they are charging an additional $13,200 (combining the addons Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self Driving capability at $7,900 and $5,300 respectively) for the full experience: https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/models/design

Software switch fee. You get the same hardware, different feature flag. Crazy right?

You can buy a kindle with ads for $50 or a kindle without for $70. I don't like the way all this is progressing.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#644
post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> very large roads I've seen quite a few Google self driving cars on Castro in Mountain View. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4082/4939372588_47979bceec_z.... That picture doesn't do it justice during the most busy hours of the evening, where there's tons of people crossing and bicycles flying about in every direction. Given that, I've never seen a crowded street in Napoli or a crossroad in Ho-Chi Minh, but I can imag…

> Given that, I've never seen a crowded street in Napoli My three tests for self-driving cars would be: 1. Drive through Milan on a Saturday afternoon, from the outside of the city, and park on the opposite side of the centre of the city. 2. Drive through London during a weekday, similar thing... cross the centre and find a parking space and park. 3. Drive through Paris during a weekend, same deal. Those three cities…

I'd be impressed if a self-driving car could cross Ho Chi Minh City during M-F.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are problems which are actually improved as more cars move to autonomous driving. A sensible government would mandate that manufacturers must upload anonymised data about each car in real time, which would effectively allow for cross-talk between cars. This could enable automatic remedies to the above situations (car X tells car Y "I've got more room behind me, let me reverse), but also prevent them in the firs…

I see this pro cross-talk argument all the time... but wouldn't that leave open a big vulnerability for bad actors to send false data between cars and, if they should choose to, control multiple vehicles and cause collisions?

For one, sending false data != controlling other vehicles.

And on the other hand there is plenty of opportunity to include encryption with gov/mfn signed keys, crosscheck received data with sensor values, etc.

The benefits far outweigh the risks.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I look forward to riding my bike 10mph in front of driverless cars. This is one of the few things that excites me about driverless cars. People should be driving below the limit (and the limits should be about 10mph lower in a lot of places) for pedestrian safety. The fatality rate drops precipitously around 20mph.

Instead of mad honking drivers, the car will sniff your smartphone's Bluetooth address. Computers you go near will recognize the smartphone, know it's you, and they'll start crashing programs and slowing down the wifi...

[deleted]

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#647
The Jalopnik review of the video was pretty critical, essentially claiming that the test was done under the best possible conditions and this doesn't demonstrate that Tesla is getting any closer to automatic driving on more typical roads. (I don't know whether that's right or wrong, just thought it was an interesting analysis.)

http://jalopnik.com/teslas-proof-video-for-their-self-drivin...

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#648
post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this pro cross-talk argument all the time... but wouldn't that leave open a big vulnerability for bad actors to send false data between cars and, if they should choose to, control multiple vehicles and cause collisions?

If cars upload their data, as well as data about other cars detected in their environment (e.g. positions of other detected cars), we could detect the suppliers of false or incorrect data by comparing data from multiple cars in each situation. It's not perfect, but could be a step in the right direction.

With this plan, couldn't the attacker just fake n cars, and thus your car would be determined to be the one that is uploading false information?

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#649
It is quite impressive, but I'll honestly have a hard time getting excited about self-driving cars until I see a demo of driving at night in a snow storm (heck, even heavy rain would be nice to see) around road construction, poor signage and faint lines on the road. Believe it or not, those kinds of conditions are fairly common in places outside of California, and until we have self-driving cars that can do really well in those conditions, this is basically just a fun demo in my opinion.

I'm really not trying to downplay the hard work and technical merit of Tesla; sped-up video and opportune edits aside, it is very cool. But I can't help but feel that it's a bit like showing off (to the world) your shiny new web app that only works in IE with ActiveX installed, only if your name is "demo user", and only when the planets are in perfect alignment - or in other words, a functional prototype by anyone else's standards. It's a great achievement, but we're certainly not "there" yet - if that's what it's trying to communicate. And yes, the "Full Self-Driving Hardware" headline certainly seems to suggest that (at least) the hardware is "there" now, and that it's only a matter of software iteration to be done.

Before you respond with the typical "but those are just nitpicky details" or "this is only v1; v2 will be able to solve those things easily", let me say this: going from this to a system that can handle challenging road conditions is not just a matter of software iteration. Since poor road conditions threaten the reliability of sensor data itself, we're talking about a problem that gets increasingly more difficult. The most sophisticated software in the world can't do anything if cameras and sensors are frozen or obstructed, and when signage and lines are lacking, the software must rely on more and more human-like levels of AI inference - not just about driving, but about the complex world in general.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I laughed out loud when I googled "tsla" after watching the video and the top headline in the news section of the google results was "Analyst doubts the new move by Tesla Motors." Clicking on the article for humor's value, I continued to read: > However, Edmunds.com, Inc. analyst Jessica Caldwell questions the value of purchasing a self-driving car before regulations catch up. Caldwell said that, meanwhile, competito…

> Having the equipment ready and in action first... That seems to be Ms. Caldwell's point: Without the software or regulations in place, it's impossible to know if the "equipment is ready." I don't disagree with her on this one. (And I am long TSLA.)

The strategy Musk has clearly been using for a long time now with this is to put as much hardware and software into the field as possible, often even without the customers knowing it's there, and gathering vast amounts of data from it, and gradually forcing it into widespread availability and acceptance, all while letting the system learn and improve itself, which is a necessary step.

He's doing what he does best: forcing a hard change on an established system.

Autonomous driving not allowed? Well, we'll give them "Autopilot"-- make sure to keep your hands on the wheel! Nope, it's not autonomous, it's Autopilot! It just happens to have all the hardware needed to be fully autonomous, and Autopilot will "gradually gain new capabilities." Questionable? Sure. Best way to make an extremely hard industry transition? Almost definitely.

It would be a chicken and egg problem if he didn't do this. Can't test the system extensively beyond the lab without regulations, can't have a system that doesn't meet regulations because it hasn't been tested enough yet. He's just sidestepping this dilemma.

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