Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network • Hacker News Board

Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

#41

Post by snowwrestler » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 2:19 PM UTC

RUG3Y wrote: post #31

snowwrestler wrote: post #20

The erosion of the concept of "ownership" continues. Traditionally, goods are subject to the first sale doctrine--once I buy a shirt, it's my property, and if I want to sell or rent it, I can. It's mine. But software is licensed. When I buy a piece of software, I'm actually paying for a limited and revokable right to use someone else's property. And now companies are putting software into more and more goods. As soft…

It's our responsibility to choose and support products that respect our rights and empower us. Vote with your feet.

I don't think voting with dollars will do much on its own, for two reasons.

1) Goods powered by software are frequently much better than goods without. I mean, compare a phone with software vs. without. Compare a car with software vs. without. Which one would you rather have?

2) Entire industries are converting to software-based capability. Speaking of phones and cars, try to find a new one these days without software in it.

I think we have to adjust, as a society.

Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

#42

Post by noer » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 2:19 PM UTC

uptown wrote: post #24

awesomerobot wrote: post #5

A venn diagram with two circles that don't intersect: "Can afford a Tesla" "Wants to drive for Uber"

This guy tried it: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-uber-driver-picks-you-...

Here's another guy that tried it as well:

https://medium.com/@SteveSasman/how-i-used-abused-my-tesla-w...

Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

#43

Post by pfarnsworth » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 2:20 PM UTC

awesomerobot wrote: post #5

A venn diagram with two circles that don't intersect: "Can afford a Tesla" "Wants to drive for Uber"

This is an ignorant statement. In Hong Kong, I've been ubered in a lot of Teslas. The Teslas are owned by rich families, and the driver uses the cars on the side.

Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

#44

Post by CoryG89 » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 2:21 PM UTC

bryanlarsen wrote: post #21

There are a bunch of possible good reasons that Tesla might want to do this: - liability - hacking prevention: anybody in the car will be able to take over the car, so you should make sure there's always somebody you trust in the car - regulatory: the owner of the car is liable for any infractions a car makes, so only there should always be somebody you trust in the car But the wording makes clear that this is just a…

This might be a reasonable argument except that Tesla makes clear that they plan to allow this as long as you use their ride sharing service, Tesla Network, which doesn't even exist yet.

Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

#45

Post by awqrre » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 2:23 PM UTC

aantix wrote: post #3

It's not enforceable, so why demand it Tesla? Nothing more annoying than a company that starts to overstep boundaries.. Stay out of my personal decisions.

Could they buy data from Lyft/Uber/etc and cross-check it with their cars' paths?

Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

#46

Post by snrplfth » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 2:23 PM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #32

What will Tesla do if you do it anyway? Disable your $100k car? Does that hold up in court? What did you buy for $100k?

You actually do buy a car, but the autonomy software comes with restrictions. You can the car manually if you want to use it for ride-sharing.

Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

#47

Post by zeveb » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 2:23 PM UTC

RUG3Y wrote: post #31

snowwrestler wrote: post #20

The erosion of the concept of "ownership" continues. Traditionally, goods are subject to the first sale doctrine--once I buy a shirt, it's my property, and if I want to sell or rent it, I can. It's mine. But software is licensed. When I buy a piece of software, I'm actually paying for a limited and revokable right to use someone else's property. And now companies are putting software into more and more goods. As soft…

It's our responsibility to choose and support products that respect our rights and empower us. Vote with your feet.

Well, voting with my feet is easy in the case of Tesla (I think that they are poorly designed and don't feel a need for an automotive status signal at this time), but what about when there are no options, or when the options are so much worse that they're not really options at all (e.g. a car without air conditioning)?

Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

#48

Post by pcr0 » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 2:23 PM UTC

TheCondor wrote: post #25

anbende wrote: post #23

If this is really about Tesla pushing their own ridesharing, wouldn't it be smarter for them to make all future price-breaks contingent on using their system? That way if someone really wants to drive Uber they can, but it'll cost them 10-15k extra for the "unlocked" version. This would seriously curtail Teslas being used on competing services, and when they were, Tesla would make money... Seems like it would be bett…

Are they preventing you from driving for uber or are they preventing their software from driving for uber?

Their software

Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

#49

Post by akerro » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 2:23 PM UTC

snowwrestler wrote: post #20

The erosion of the concept of "ownership" continues. Traditionally, goods are subject to the first sale doctrine--once I buy a shirt, it's my property, and if I want to sell or rent it, I can. It's mine. But software is licensed. When I buy a piece of software, I'm actually paying for a limited and revokable right to use someone else's property. And now companies are putting software into more and more goods. As soft…

2 weeks ago ACLU organized some actions to change this bill, looks like they failed.

Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

#50

Post by mtgx » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 2:24 PM UTC

adventurer wrote: post #10

ythl wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not "buying" a Tesla anymore just like you aren't "buying" an iPhone anymore. Thus it is not "yours", and you can't do anything you want with it.

It's starting to get out of hand. I purchased a Toyota last year and magically get updates and phone calls about scheduling maintenance. This means the car is sending data to the mothership without anyone realizing it. They have all your driving habits and likely share it with however they want. You can't stop it and most people don't realize it is even happening.

> You can't stop it and most people don't realize it is even happening.

Yet the media will probably spin this as "people just don't care," as they usually do with privacy issues. It's very much an awareness and education issue.