On the one hand, it's absolutely appropriate for people to raise questions about these types of contract/license terms and have a discussion around them. On the other hand, as a practical matter, this particular case is a complete non-issue. Anyone who thinks a car being sold today is ever going to be remotely capable of fully autonomous operation, software updates notwithstanding, is... optimistic.
Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network
11–20 of 213 posts
Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network
#12A venn diagram with two circles that don't intersect: "Can afford a Tesla" "Wants to drive for Uber"
"I could afford a Tesla if it could help pay for itself..."
Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network
#13A venn diagram with two circles that don't intersect: "Can afford a Tesla" "Wants to drive for Uber"
Well the point is that the car would drive itself for Uber.
Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're not "buying" a Tesla anymore just like you aren't "buying" an iPhone anymore. Thus it is not "yours", and you can't do anything you want with it.
It's starting to get out of hand. I purchased a Toyota last year and magically get updates and phone calls about scheduling maintenance. This means the car is sending data to the mothership without anyone realizing it. They have all your driving habits and likely share it with however they want. You can't stop it and most people don't realize it is even happening.
I've received these as well, but it's always been "Hey, it's been 6 months since your last oil change with us -- come on in!"
I could very easily see if you go to the same mechanic and they input your mileage between visits and a system having a reasonable chance of getting scheduled maintenance correct based upon time or average mileage.
I've never heard of a company pulling data from a car OTA to do this type of work. (some car insurance companies are a different story though)
Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network
#15It's not enforceable, so why demand it Tesla? Nothing more annoying than a company that starts to overstep boundaries.. Stay out of my personal decisions.
Why would you think it's not enforceable? Indeed, the more restrictions Tesla adds, the more enforceable it is: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/09/the-end-of-used-m...
Because if Tesla is legitimately able to use the force of law to prevent me from using the car in a a way I see fit, Tesla owns the car not me, and they have not sold me a car, they have sold me a perpetual license.
(Which your linked article makes clear.)
Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network
#16Wow. Key statement here: " but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year." Tesla Network? Uber/Lyft competitor? Plus I sure hope this won't hold up in court. I do not want a company telling me how to use my product that I paid for.
This was already on Musk's Master Plan Pt2 [0], listed under "Sharing". Though it's true that the name of the service and release schedule was not known before. [0] https://www.tesla.com/blog/master-plan-part-deux
Interesting.
Wonder if I have the option to opt out of the "Network" and join Uber or a future entity?
Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network
#17A venn diagram with two circles that don't intersect: "Can afford a Tesla" "Wants to drive for Uber"
Maybe it's different where you live, but I'm in UK and I see lots of Teslas as taxis(uber or other) - it just makes perfect sense. Even though the lease on a Tesla is very expensive compared to a regular car, it's much much much cheaper to run(especially with petrol/diesel being around $7-8/US gallon), requires a lot less maintenance, and retains strong value over time. So actually, buying a Tesla to drive as a taxi is very attractive, and I wouldn't be surprised if these two diagrams were actually very closely overlapping.
Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're not "buying" a Tesla anymore just like you aren't "buying" an iPhone anymore. Thus it is not "yours", and you can't do anything you want with it.
It's starting to get out of hand. I purchased a Toyota last year and magically get updates and phone calls about scheduling maintenance. This means the car is sending data to the mothership without anyone realizing it. They have all your driving habits and likely share it with however they want. You can't stop it and most people don't realize it is even happening.
>I purchased a Toyota last year and magically get updates and phone calls about scheduling maintenance.
I bet if you were willing to waive the warranty they'd stop calling you. But, being as how the warranty on cars is now 5+ years, and that the maintenance variance among owners is high, I don't see this as a bad thing.
Granted, it's not happening to me (yet), so I might complain too.
Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's starting to get out of hand. I purchased a Toyota last year and magically get updates and phone calls about scheduling maintenance. This means the car is sending data to the mothership without anyone realizing it. They have all your driving habits and likely share it with however they want. You can't stop it and most people don't realize it is even happening.
I've received these as well, but it's always been "Hey, it's been 6 months since your last oil change with us -- come on in!" I could very easily see if you go to the same mechanic and they input your mileage between visits and a system having a reasonable chance of getting scheduled maintenance correct based upon time or average mileage. I've never heard of a company pulling data from a car OTA to do this type of wo…
I'm receiving the communication about 2-3 months ahead of that schedule due to the excess mileage I'm driving. At about 6k miles, my tire sensor was going on and off for a few days, then I received an email specifically to come in to check the tire pressure. It may have be coincidence, but it's highly unlikely at this point.
Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network
#20The erosion of the concept of "ownership" continues.
Traditionally, goods are subject to the first sale doctrine--once I buy a shirt, it's my property, and if I want to sell or rent it, I can. It's mine.
But software is licensed. When I buy a piece of software, I'm actually paying for a limited and revokable right to use someone else's property. And now companies are putting software into more and more goods.
As software is eating the world, it is also eating our concept of what it means to buy and own things.
Amazon in 2009 remotely deleted George Orwell books (you can't make this up) from customer Kindles without asking first. Amazon didn't need the customers' permission because a Kindle book is legally a license, not a piece of property.
John Deere tractors have been prized by farmers for their durability and flexibility. Now they come with software and a prohibition against customer modification or repair.
It sounds silly but the right to repair our own property is under threat. It's now something that we need to fight for.
And now apparently even paying $100,000 will not be enough to give full ownership rights to a car.