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All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

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Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#361

Post by flexie »

VeejayRampay wrote: post #332
_abak_ wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All miles are not created equals though. Sure Tesla will gather a lot of data quickly but most of this data will be from people who use their car for their daily commute, everyday at roughly the same hour. This doesn't have the same value as data from different areas/road conditions/time of day

The USA is a big country with a lot of variety though. Different timezones, climates, terrain. It does provide some coverage I would think.

And they do drive Teslas outside the US as well.

And should there be places, terrains, urban conditions etc. that Tesla doesn't cover, they will see it and can hire a number of chauffeurs to drive around there. Even if they hired 1,000 drivers to gather data in certain geographical areas at certain hours or weather conditions that they lacked input from it would be a drop in the ocean compared with the cost other car manufacturers face to keep up with Tesla now.

You can't just install autonomous driving systems in any combustion engine car without changing lots of systems. Tesla is electric fist. Everything is already wired, ready to be measured and in feedback loops.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#362

Post by grecy »

hash-set wrote: post #176

I get that tech companies want self-driving cars really bad because they smell billions of dollars in "disruption" but no matter how good AI gets, I have a suspicion it won't actually do better than a decent human driver can do. It's not about processing speed, it's about experience and reflexes, which granted, not everyone has. Let's see a self-driving car win a Formula 1 race--and even that controlled racetrack env…

> I have a suspicion it won't actually do better than a decent human driver can do

No suspicion needed, Telsa's data already shows their systems are doing better than Human drivers.

I'm quite certain they won't release full autonomy until that also performs better than human drivers.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#363

Post by bitL »

All German car manufacturers are now fitting their cars with hidden passive sensors for collecting data related to human driving with the intent to use these data for autonomous driving. Their main problem is the cost of transmission, i.e. they are considering buying mobile networks/towers and piggyback on mobile traffic. Then obviously feeding these data to huge datacenters with the projected flow of up to 2MB/s from a single car.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#364

Post by gnipgnip »

Animats wrote: post #99

More cameras. Better sonars (very short range). Better radar processing, but apparently the same old single radar at bumper height. Still no windshield-height radar. No radar scanning in elevation. No LIDAR. That's a better, but still weak sensor suite. It's probably enough for freeway driving under good conditions. It's far below Google's sensor suite. Or Volvo's. Now they just have to write software smart enough to…

Could you share with us what the state of art in SLAM is ? Last I looked, the backend is essentially the same old Kalman-smoother, but the frontend is generally used with hand-tuned features (stuff from the 90s - 00s). Big Data, incl. all the rapid advance in object-recognition CNNs can't really seem to do much in this case; unless there are radical new techniques that I'm not aware of.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#365

Post by orwell101 »

karyon wrote: post #307
yitchelle wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am going play devil's advocate here. In the future, would Telsa use these data for other purposes? ie after analysing the data, it finds that my driving behaviour risk and has a higher chance of accident. It could trigger high insurance premiums or restriction on which car I can purchase etc.

Let me play the devil's advocate here as well :) What exactly is the problem with punishing people for risky driving? Or rather, let them pay a corresponding premium to cover for the (statistically expected) higher damages they will cause? Keep in mind that driving behaviour is something the user has full control of, in contrast to e.g. disabilities, for which of course no insurance premium should be paid. I actually…

Why don't we film everyone at home to determine if they engage in risky behavior like climbing roofs or using chain saws?

We could determine their liability insurance premium more accurately!

Why don't we film everyone in bed to determine if they use condoms?

We could determine their health insurance premiums more accurately!

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#366

Post by teebot »

flexie wrote: post #301
luma wrote: post #91

I think what people are missing here is an understanding of how these systems are tested and deployed at scale. While I have no involvement with Tesla I do have first-hand knowledge of similar programs at tier 1 automotive suppliers. The suppliers provide (or are looking to provide) an electronics suite to car manufacturers. The car manufacturers want the system to be safe lest they be sued out of existence. One part…

"Data collection that would take years can happen in weeks" I think that we are talking days, not weeks, or probably that Teslas can have multiple teams testing various hardware and algorithms at the same time: Tesla plans on producing 500k cars per year from 2018. If all of them have this equipment, and they drive a conservative 10k miles per year in average, Tesla will gather data from 5 billion miles driven after…

I don't know if any amount of data collection and model refinement will allow self driving in ALL situations. We always see self driving demos in California on very large roads, I'd like to see one in a small crowded street of Napoli or on a crossroad in Ho-Chi Minh.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#367

Post by doikor »

teebot wrote: post #366
flexie wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Data collection that would take years can happen in weeks" I think that we are talking days, not weeks, or probably that Teslas can have multiple teams testing various hardware and algorithms at the same time: Tesla plans on producing 500k cars per year from 2018. If all of them have this equipment, and they drive a conservative 10k miles per year in average, Tesla will gather data from 5 billion miles driven after…

I don't know if any amount of data collection and model refinement will allow self driving in ALL situations. We always see self driving demos in California on very large roads, I'd like to see one in a small crowded street of Napoli or on a crossroad in Ho-Chi Minh.

It will be a long time before Teslas can drive on dirt roads or roads covered in snow. But most daily driving happens on pavement either on the highway or in the city. Both of which it already handles quite well and will just get better.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#368

Post by wmeredith »

teebot wrote: post #366
flexie wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Data collection that would take years can happen in weeks" I think that we are talking days, not weeks, or probably that Teslas can have multiple teams testing various hardware and algorithms at the same time: Tesla plans on producing 500k cars per year from 2018. If all of them have this equipment, and they drive a conservative 10k miles per year in average, Tesla will gather data from 5 billion miles driven after…

I don't know if any amount of data collection and model refinement will allow self driving in ALL situations. We always see self driving demos in California on very large roads, I'd like to see one in a small crowded street of Napoli or on a crossroad in Ho-Chi Minh.

Honestly, I kind of want to drive in those situations. (I enjoy driving for the most part.) It's exactly on long stretches of highway or during an urban commute that want autopilot.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#369

Post by _nalply »

rejschaap wrote: post #358
jsherwani wrote: post #349

The video is incredible: https://www.tesla.com/videos/full-self-driving-hardware-all-...

It's pretty cool. From a marketing perspective I think they shouldn't have sped up the video. I feel it makes the driving look a little dangerous.

I liked the sportiness of it.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#370

Post by sangnoir »

sinxoveretothex wrote: post #277
sangnoir wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The most interesting thing about self-driving vehicles is that there is a legitimate reason people should never be able to modify the firmware on their vehicles People can already modify their car hardware in dangerous ways, yet no one is welding the hood shut. You may weld spikes on your car to keep prying eyes away if you wish, but when you inevitably impale someone, Ford will not be liable. Why should software b…

> You may weld spikes on your car to keep prying eyes away if you wish, but when you inevitably impale someone, Ford will not be liable. Because it will be obvious that it was modified, even to journalists, the public and a jury of your peers. Also the cops, who will arrest you for it. But there is no such visibility for software.

Expert witnesses exist for a reason - they will be able to answer the question whether the firmware was factory-installed or not.

> But there is no such visibility for software

Software modification has a lot of visibility, especially since Teslas log everything - why not log when new firmware was loaded? They could also checksum post-facto, but even that is not necessary: Tesla could implement something similar to Androids "fastboot oem unlock" option

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