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All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

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Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#341

Post by worldsayshi »

scandox wrote: post #321
Animats wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, Tesla acts like it owns that data. Their privacy policy permits them to monitor your vehicle unless you opt out. But there's no reason you can't download that data yourself, if you can figure out how to do so. Does anybody make an antenna-level middle box for GSM phones? Something you hook into the antenna cable as a firewall/monitor?

Does this mean that Tesla owners could band together and sell all this massively valuable data to Google?

At the very best it will only put Google on par with Tesla in terms of collected data. Given that it will require Google to reverse-engineer how Tesla process their data it seems like it would still require quite a large investment on their part.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#342

Post by Tepix »

nojvek wrote: post #152
kpao wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pilot here as well, unfortunately, it's a fight that won't be easy to win. If in the mind of people, Autopilot means self driving. It's going to be hard to change the global perception. When I'm using the Autopilot, I feel like I'm in my airplane, always on guard, and in a practice of recovery from unusual attitude in flight. There are a few times also where being an engineer has helped a lot. You can pretty much pre…

Have a RAV4 2016 SE. Great car, sonars and cameras everywhere but still very stupid driving at times. I don't mind it, because it keeps me alert to take over at moments notice. I really want to hack the can bus and give it more smarts. What is the legality of that?

That's exactly what comma.ai is doing, isn't it?

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#343

Post by makomk »

maratd wrote: post #146
Animats wrote: post #99

More cameras. Better sonars (very short range). Better radar processing, but apparently the same old single radar at bumper height. Still no windshield-height radar. No radar scanning in elevation. No LIDAR. That's a better, but still weak sensor suite. It's probably enough for freeway driving under good conditions. It's far below Google's sensor suite. Or Volvo's. Now they just have to write software smart enough to…

> That's a better, but still weak sensor suite. All you have is two overlapping cameras with poor resolution and they let you behind the wheel, right? This is a software and processing hardware problem only . Human beings drive OK for the most part and we don't have lidar/radar/sonar/etc. With 8 cameras providing 360 vision and an advanced NVIDIA hardware suite, this problem is entirely solvable and this is a very re…

With modern driver assistance packages, that's not true anymore. For example Mazda's safety technology apparently gives drivers access to radars and radar coverage that Tesla simply don't have; see e.g. http://www.mazda.com/en/innovation/technology/safety/active_... There's also been talk of mandating active safety systems on new cars because regulators are worried about the safety of drivers relying on just their own two eyes.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#344

Post by afarrell »

DasIch wrote: post #245
rtkwe wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really a lot of weather patterns are analogous; for vision heavy rain isn't terribly different from a blizzard, etc. With a large enough span across the US you can get pretty much all weather conditions inside a 6 month window from mid summer to mid winter.

That's only helpful if you have a fairly random distribution across the US. I very much doubt that's the case for Tesla. You'll probably have far more Teslas driving around in California, maybe even the Silicon Valley, than in say Alaska.

But they have a lot of drivers in Norway.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#345

Post by irq11 »

MarkMc wrote: post #333
Animats wrote: post #99

More cameras. Better sonars (very short range). Better radar processing, but apparently the same old single radar at bumper height. Still no windshield-height radar. No radar scanning in elevation. No LIDAR. That's a better, but still weak sensor suite. It's probably enough for freeway driving under good conditions. It's far below Google's sensor suite. Or Volvo's. Now they just have to write software smart enough to…

> It's probably enough for freeway driving under good conditions. It might rule out driving in fog or snow, but if the weather is OK then the sensor suite is probably enough for driving on any paved road. I think you are underestimating how quickly Tesla's AI software can improve. The AI will always be running and checking to see if the driver does anything unexpected. For example if you brake or swerve suddenly when…

"I think you're underestimating how quickly Tesla'a AI software can improve"

Do you have any basis for that statement, other than that you like Elon Musk, and read an article about "big data" once?

I have actual experience in this field. The parent is right: the sensors matter more than hypothetical gains from "big data". Because right now, sensors suck. There's a reason every serious player in this game is plopping pairs of $10,000 lidar units on their test cars (and still failing to work in the rain). You can't distinguish signal from noise by collecting more noise, and until you have a decent sensor suite, "big data" is just garbage-in, garbage-out.

Reading this discussion, you'd almost forget that the reason Tesla is doing this is because its existing sensor suite was proven to be a total joke in actual use...but hey, here's to the emperor's new outfit! One hundred percent less naked than the old one!

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#346

Post by Tepix »

rasz_pl wrote: post #182
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #7

> Teslas with new hardware will temporarily lack certain features currently available on Teslas with first-generation Autopilot hardware, including some standard safety features such as automatic emergency breaking, collision warning, lane holding and active cruise control. Not sure what to make of this. New buyers are getting less than current owners now, but expected to get much more later? I can't think of a prece…

Its not marketing decision, MobilEye dropped them, this is Teslas emergency plan.

This is one of the most insightful comments here. Too bad it gets drowned in all the rest. Also, if you read the WSJ or other articles they don't mention this either. Good job by Tesla PR I suppose.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#347

Post by davedx »

svantana wrote: post #337
luma wrote: post #91

I think what people are missing here is an understanding of how these systems are tested and deployed at scale. While I have no involvement with Tesla I do have first-hand knowledge of similar programs at tier 1 automotive suppliers. The suppliers provide (or are looking to provide) an electronics suite to car manufacturers. The car manufacturers want the system to be safe lest they be sued out of existence. One part…

The only problem is, Tesla's sensor suite is too weak to ever get to full autonomy. So once they upgrade the sensors, what good is the data from the old sensors? Perhaps it's possible to extrapolate the data somehow, to have a database of "situations" rather than actual sensor data?

What do you make of this, then?

https://www.tesla.com/nl_NL/videos/full-self-driving-hardwar...

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#348

Post by davedx »

jayjay71 wrote: post #149
maratd wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a better, but still weak sensor suite. All you have is two overlapping cameras with poor resolution and they let you behind the wheel, right? This is a software and processing hardware problem only . Human beings drive OK for the most part and we don't have lidar/radar/sonar/etc. With 8 cameras providing 360 vision and an advanced NVIDIA hardware suite, this problem is entirely solvable and this is a very re…

In theory, sure. But you're effectively saying computers have to process vision as well as humans, which some experts think is comparable to solving AI. I'm not saying Tesla won't make a lot of progress, but considering how many decades of research has gone into this very problem (I worked on it at Carnegie Mellon as a graduate student, and they've been doing it since the 80's) it will likely take longer than most pe…

What do you make of this?

https://www.tesla.com/nl_NL/videos/full-self-driving-hardwar...

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#350

Post by riskneural »

eridius wrote: post #266
sangnoir wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be forgetting about Google Maps vans.

I would assume that Google Maps vans aren't driven in the same manner as other cars. They've got a large complicated camera system on top, so presumably they're driven very conservatively, and presumably they're also not driven particularly fast (kind of hard to capture good pictures when you're driving really fast). Which is to say, if Google wants self-driving Google Maps vans, then collecting data using Google Map…

But Google Maps vans cover land comprehensively, whereas Tesla's "convenience sample" is not comprehensive. However, Tesla's data then covers the relevant data more often.

Definitely two data sets that should be put together.

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