Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

tesla.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 1001 posts

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#221

Post by prostoalex »

hash-set wrote: post #176

I get that tech companies want self-driving cars really bad because they smell billions of dollars in "disruption" but no matter how good AI gets, I have a suspicion it won't actually do better than a decent human driver can do. It's not about processing speed, it's about experience and reflexes, which granted, not everyone has. Let's see a self-driving car win a Formula 1 race--and even that controlled racetrack env…

A marginal improvement on 1.3 million deaths a year (source: http://asirt.org/initiatives/informing-road-users/road-safet...) might be a bit more worthwhile goal than winning a race.

Can you elaborate on possible causes of ~1.3 million deaths in autonomous vehicle world?

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#222

Post by git_rancher »

serge2k wrote: post #111
bpicolo wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which will only last if they're the only ones that can make self-driving cars I would think. Edit: Though you can have your car join that network sooo. Mostly just means they don't want to sell to Uber, heh.

Nah, the other companies will slap them on too. People need to fight this BS.

Is there any commercial software that lacks an EULA? Not having one would I think expose the company to risks that any for-profit company is incentivized to minimize (i.e. It wouldn't make sense to not have one).

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#223

Post by rtkwe »

mjevans wrote: post #219
Dangeranger wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question: Does the fact that the collection of the required volume of kms driven is performed over a shorter period of time based on a higher number of test subjects collecting the data impact the diversity and quality of the data negatively? Said another way: Is there a downside to parallelizing the collection process across a broader horizontal population of collection vehicles over a shorter period versus the trad…

The only obvious downside to an outside observer is that they will find it difficult to collect 'all weather' data in substantial volume in less than approximately a single year. From the positive side, they will collect and be able to evaluate a much /wider/ range of driving data from a far larger set. They are much more likely to run across 'better morons' both in operators of the Tesla and in operators of other ca…

Really a lot of weather patterns are analogous; for vision heavy rain isn't terribly different from a blizzard, etc. With a large enough span across the US you can get pretty much all weather conditions inside a 6 month window from mid summer to mid winter.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#224

Post by tinalumfoil »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #208
thesimon wrote: post #70

If you go to the order page of the Model S, it says for the "Full Self-Driving Hardware": >Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year. Interesting decision.

I expect, and one of the lawyers reading can probably clarify, that Tesla's liability and risk changes if you're using the car for a commercial venture with their blessing. This specifically says you can't do that, so you're in violation of the terms of service and presumably that is enough to shield them.

If Tesla isn't confident enough in their self-driving service to accept the liability then I doubt it's good enough to be approved for road-use anyway. It sounds like they're trying to set a precedent to kill competition before it starts. Hopefully other self-driving car manufacturers force their hand or kill their business.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#225

Post by jayjay71 »

Animats wrote: post #216
jayjay71 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory, sure. But you're effectively saying computers have to process vision as well as humans, which some experts think is comparable to solving AI. I'm not saying Tesla won't make a lot of progress, but considering how many decades of research has gone into this very problem (I worked on it at Carnegie Mellon as a graduate student, and they've been doing it since the 80's) it will likely take longer than most pe…

Google is at stage 3 and getting close to stage 4 for slow ( At higher speeds, prediction becomes more of an issue. Will that car on the side street drive into the intersection, or not? At slow speeds, you can wait and see what they do. At higher speeds, you have to predict behavior. That's hard, but a machine learning problem.

This is with the caveat that the weather is nice and you're in one of Google's specially mapped areas. As I understand it - and I never worked at Google and I keep waiting for someone who does to correct me on it - those maps are very difficult to scale and maintain.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#226

Post by ChuckMcM »

tinalumfoil wrote: post #224
ChuckMcM wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect, and one of the lawyers reading can probably clarify, that Tesla's liability and risk changes if you're using the car for a commercial venture with their blessing. This specifically says you can't do that, so you're in violation of the terms of service and presumably that is enough to shield them.

If Tesla isn't confident enough in their self-driving service to accept the liability then I doubt it's good enough to be approved for road-use anyway. It sounds like they're trying to set a precedent to kill competition before it starts. Hopefully other self-driving car manufacturers force their hand or kill their business.

Perhaps, but it is not uncommon for example for chip manufacturers to specifically say their parts cannot be used in safety systems without their express written authorization. They are certainly confident their chips work, and they sell them by the bucket full, but if someone dies as a result of using their product that their chips are in, they don't want to be liable. They use those disclaimers to shift liability to the person who designed it in.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#227

Post by toomuchtodo »

joesb wrote: post #189
toomuchtodo wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But not being able to USE your car for some things? That just screams easy headlines and it's a reason I might not get a Tesla in the future. Its your car. It's Tesla software. You don't own it, just like you don't own any of the other commercial software you use. I can't really find fault in it; they deserve the lion's share of the revenue (not Uber, Lyft, or you) if you put the vehicle into their shared rideshari…

You know that all car curently always has some form of software in its driving/braking system right? What's next? A blender has some kind of timer software in it so you can't use it in commercial unless you are on blender network? A TV has software for programmable channel in it, so you can't use it in your bar unless the TV vendor allow it? Software is their implementation detail, I buy the resulting whole product.

And just like existing drive by wire vehicles, I don't own that software either.

Tesla is not prohibiting ridesharing. They are requiring the vehicle be in their ridesharing pool if you use their autonomous driving software.

Again, you own the car, not the software. Don't like the license, don't buy the car. Others will.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#228

Post by benliong78 »

tmptmp wrote: post #198
PacketPaul wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pilot here. Airplanes have autopilot. While on autopilot you are still expected to be monitoring the flight and take control at a moments notice. Autopilot does not allow the pilot to take a nap or go in the back and party with the flight attendants. Autopilot is the correct term. I'm tired of always having to cater to the lowest common denominator.

>>Autopilot is the correct term. I'm tired of always having to cater to the lowest common denominator. Your argument fails as the analogy of car drivers with airplane pilots fails on various grounds. a. The airplanes, which provides autopilot facility, their pilots have to undergo more rigorous and stringent training than what a ordinary car driver has to undergo b. for different types of airplane autopilot systems t…

I agree that Tesla is using the term "autopilot" opportunistically to say the least. Whether the term accurately represents the feature they want to promote (imho technically it does, but more on that later) is becoming less relevant.

But I'd like to bring counter-argument to your points (a) and (b): taking away the autopilot feature from both airplanes and cars, an airplane pilot still has to undergo substantially more training than a car driver does, so imho the increased training for pilots compared to vehicle drivers is largely coming from the difficulty in controlling the machine and the more deadly consequence of control-loss to the driver / pilot and to the others.

That being said, the term autopilot is being used opportunistically. There's no way Tesla will back away from the term now, so the next best thing is to warn the user, in every step of the way, that "YOU HAVE TO KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE ROAD IDIOT", to the point that if they can detect your hands not on the wheel a warning sounds.

I do believe the Tesla Autopilot and the autonomous mode in the future will save lives, what we're experiencing is the growing pain till we get there.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#229

Post by toomuchtodo »

hash-set wrote: post #188
toomuchtodo wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But not being able to USE your car for some things? That just screams easy headlines and it's a reason I might not get a Tesla in the future. Its your car. It's Tesla software. You don't own it, just like you don't own any of the other commercial software you use. I can't really find fault in it; they deserve the lion's share of the revenue (not Uber, Lyft, or you) if you put the vehicle into their shared rideshari…

I don't really buy into the software licensing bs--it was forced on us without any choices. It is the worst kind of legal bs there is. "You paid for this but you have no rights to it." Uh, yeah, keep thinking that.

You don't have to buy into a law for it to exist and be enforced.

And if you're in the tech industry, that "legal bs" is what allows you to have an income.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#230

Post by nardi »

aerovistae wrote: post #209

Some of what they describe sounds like it's going to take some real adjustment before it stops being annoying and starts being useful, namely the assumption of what you want when you get in and out. > If you don’t say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on the calendar. Oh boy. If you get in your car, it will just assume it should start…

These seem like straw-man criticisms.

> Oh boy. If you get in your car, it will just assume it should start driving somewhere more or less immediately? What if you want to sit for a few minutes?

You think they won't have a "Go" button on the 17" touchscreen?

> Again, what if I'm unpacking things for the car, or don't want the car to go anywhere? I don't want to have to pull out my phone and tap on something to stop it rolling away, or jump in front of it or something, or open a door.

Again—there is a 17" touchscreen right there. You don't control your car with your phone or your voice. Have you never seen a Tesla?

Post reply on HN