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All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

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Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#181

Post by IndianAstronaut »

hash-set wrote: post #176

I get that tech companies want self-driving cars really bad because they smell billions of dollars in "disruption" but no matter how good AI gets, I have a suspicion it won't actually do better than a decent human driver can do. It's not about processing speed, it's about experience and reflexes, which granted, not everyone has. Let's see a self-driving car win a Formula 1 race--and even that controlled racetrack env…

>In terms of safety, people will still lose their lives, they will just die from different kinds of car accidents than the kinds we have now

If self driving cars kill 20 thousand people a year, it would still be a major improvement. 30 thousand people die every year from human drivers.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#182

Post by rasz_pl »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #7

> Teslas with new hardware will temporarily lack certain features currently available on Teslas with first-generation Autopilot hardware, including some standard safety features such as automatic emergency breaking, collision warning, lane holding and active cruise control. Not sure what to make of this. New buyers are getting less than current owners now, but expected to get much more later? I can't think of a prece…

Its not marketing decision, MobilEye dropped them, this is Teslas emergency plan.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#183

Post by bsder »

djsumdog wrote: post #147
Klathmon wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a really fucking shitty thing to do, and is gonna cause some pretty big waves IMO if they follow through with it. The issues with not being able to modify your own stuff is already really shitty, but its not something that the average Joe really can understand easily, and even less care about it. But not being able to USE your car for some things? That just screams easy headlines and it's a reason I might not…

The most interesting thing about self-driving vehicles is that there is a legitimate reason people should never be able to modify the firmware on their vehicles. The risks would be very high. There is also the entire liability and planed obsolescent issues not being dealt with. Will Tesla support these cars forever? Will 10 year old models still get software updates?

> The most interesting thing about self-driving vehicles is that there is a legitimate reason people should never be able to modify the firmware on their vehicles. The risks would be very high.

Tough. We have liability law to cover that.

You'll be screaming to allow modification when your trip is 20 minutes longer because a bunch of rich assholes paid Tesla to route all traffic around their neighborhood.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#184

Post by hash-set »

djsumdog wrote: post #147
Klathmon wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a really fucking shitty thing to do, and is gonna cause some pretty big waves IMO if they follow through with it. The issues with not being able to modify your own stuff is already really shitty, but its not something that the average Joe really can understand easily, and even less care about it. But not being able to USE your car for some things? That just screams easy headlines and it's a reason I might not…

The most interesting thing about self-driving vehicles is that there is a legitimate reason people should never be able to modify the firmware on their vehicles. The risks would be very high. There is also the entire liability and planed obsolescent issues not being dealt with. Will Tesla support these cars forever? Will 10 year old models still get software updates?

There is a fallacy of "appeal to authority" here. If it's my property, I'll do as I please with it. Risks? Look at the risks we face with DRM of all kinds and how are rights are reduced and eliminated for the sake of corporate profits.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#185

Post by rasz_pl »

andr wrote: post #33
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #7

> Teslas with new hardware will temporarily lack certain features currently available on Teslas with first-generation Autopilot hardware, including some standard safety features such as automatic emergency breaking, collision warning, lane holding and active cruise control. Not sure what to make of this. New buyers are getting less than current owners now, but expected to get much more later? I can't think of a prece…

I wonder how much it would cost to add hardware for both Autopilot v1.0 and v2.0 for the gap models, so new customers don't have to make the sacrifice. Lack of complete Autopilot for a while is fine, but lack of emergency braking increases your life risk.

There is no price point when hardware manufacturer (mobileye) refuses to sell to you

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#186

Post by hash-set »

Klathmon wrote: post #148
djsumdog wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most interesting thing about self-driving vehicles is that there is a legitimate reason people should never be able to modify the firmware on their vehicles. The risks would be very high. There is also the entire liability and planed obsolescent issues not being dealt with. Will Tesla support these cars forever? Will 10 year old models still get software updates?

I'm not sure I entirely agree with that. Cars are already extremely risky to modify, but it is still possible (and it's even a protected consumer right). I can go out and accidentally cut the breaks on my own car while changing the tire, if it causes harm, we already have a system in place to deal with it. Why should software be any different?

Oh baloney. Have you any experience with current car tech? It's pretty freaking basic, all things considered. Anyone who codes enterprise applications for a living can deal with a car's ECU, including ABS, traction control, all of it. The autonomous stuff is "scary AI" but if it's not open sourced, I don't want it.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#187

Post by rasz_pl »

mklarmann wrote: post #10

It was already announced before, that the hardware is included. And it was clear, that it is meant to be used for autonomous driving. And as they do not have autonomous driving yet, this is indeed just hot air... How would they know it is completed if there is no demonstration of it actually working?

They dont know, thats how they killed couple of people using mobileye hardware before.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#188

Post by hash-set »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #158
Klathmon wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a really fucking shitty thing to do, and is gonna cause some pretty big waves IMO if they follow through with it. The issues with not being able to modify your own stuff is already really shitty, but its not something that the average Joe really can understand easily, and even less care about it. But not being able to USE your car for some things? That just screams easy headlines and it's a reason I might not…

> But not being able to USE your car for some things? That just screams easy headlines and it's a reason I might not get a Tesla in the future. Its your car. It's Tesla software. You don't own it, just like you don't own any of the other commercial software you use. I can't really find fault in it; they deserve the lion's share of the revenue (not Uber, Lyft, or you) if you put the vehicle into their shared rideshari…

I don't really buy into the software licensing bs--it was forced on us without any choices. It is the worst kind of legal bs there is. "You paid for this but you have no rights to it." Uh, yeah, keep thinking that.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#189

Post by joesb »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #158
Klathmon wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a really fucking shitty thing to do, and is gonna cause some pretty big waves IMO if they follow through with it. The issues with not being able to modify your own stuff is already really shitty, but its not something that the average Joe really can understand easily, and even less care about it. But not being able to USE your car for some things? That just screams easy headlines and it's a reason I might not…

> But not being able to USE your car for some things? That just screams easy headlines and it's a reason I might not get a Tesla in the future. Its your car. It's Tesla software. You don't own it, just like you don't own any of the other commercial software you use. I can't really find fault in it; they deserve the lion's share of the revenue (not Uber, Lyft, or you) if you put the vehicle into their shared rideshari…

You know that all car curently always has some form of software in its driving/braking system right?

What's next?

A blender has some kind of timer software in it so you can't use it in commercial unless you are on blender network? A TV has software for programmable channel in it, so you can't use it in your bar unless the TV vendor allow it?

Software is their implementation detail, I buy the resulting whole product.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#190

Post by rasz_pl »

wmf wrote: post #20
mklarmann wrote: post #10

It was already announced before, that the hardware is included. And it was clear, that it is meant to be used for autonomous driving. And as they do not have autonomous driving yet, this is indeed just hot air... How would they know it is completed if there is no demonstration of it actually working?

Looking at what is not said, my interpretation is that previous Teslas will not be software-upgraded to full autonomy because the problem is harder than they previously thought.

the problem was http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/09/tesla-dropped-by-mobiley...
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