Russian Hacker, Wanted by F.B.I., Is Arrested in Prague, Czechs Say • Hacker News Board

Re: Russian Hacker, Wanted by F.B.I., Is Arrested in Prague, Czechs Say

#141

Post by codedokode » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 1:19 AM UTC

plugger wrote: post #140

codedokode wrote: post #138

Isn't it wrong? A person that is not an US citizen, that has never been to US, will be extradited to USA and will probably be convicted to a 10 or 20 years in prison unless he can afford a lawyer that costs several hundreds dollars per hour (because you have to pay for a "fair" trial in USA) for doing the same things NSA does every day. Since when US courts have jurisdiction over other countries? Obviously this perso…

By your logic prosecuting international computer crime wouldn't be possible. How do you expect that to work out in practice? Also, he was arrested in the Czech Republic, not Russia. The Czech Republic has an extradition treaty with the US that existed long before the Internet did. This isn't rocket appliances, it's how our world's nation state system works. Sure, he probably shouldn't get 20 years and should receive…

The current system is asymmetric. If US can extradite people from other countries for something they do on the Internet, why Russia, China or Iran cannot? US is showing a bad example here. Once some governments get more power they will want to do this too. This is actually a display of power by US.

Maybe there should be some international agreements on how to deal with such cross-border crimes but they should be discussed and agreed upon by many countries.

And I don't like this anyway. I would rather prefer having american or russian systems disconnected from other countries than extraditing people into a foreign country to judge them by foreign laws.

Re: Russian Hacker, Wanted by F.B.I., Is Arrested in Prague, Czechs Say

#142

Post by codedokode » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 1:23 AM UTC

plugger wrote: post #140

codedokode wrote: post #138

Isn't it wrong? A person that is not an US citizen, that has never been to US, will be extradited to USA and will probably be convicted to a 10 or 20 years in prison unless he can afford a lawyer that costs several hundreds dollars per hour (because you have to pay for a "fair" trial in USA) for doing the same things NSA does every day. Since when US courts have jurisdiction over other countries? Obviously this perso…

By your logic prosecuting international computer crime wouldn't be possible. How do you expect that to work out in practice? Also, he was arrested in the Czech Republic, not Russia. The Czech Republic has an extradition treaty with the US that existed long before the Internet did. This isn't rocket appliances, it's how our world's nation state system works. Sure, he probably shouldn't get 20 years and should receive…

> But to allow anyone to hack computer systems in the US because that person is not a US citizen and not in the US is borderline laughable.

NSA does hacking every day so can other countries extradite and prosecute its employees?

Re: Russian Hacker, Wanted by F.B.I., Is Arrested in Prague, Czechs Say

#143

Post by plugger » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 1:35 AM UTC

codedokode wrote: post #142

plugger wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By your logic prosecuting international computer crime wouldn't be possible. How do you expect that to work out in practice? Also, he was arrested in the Czech Republic, not Russia. The Czech Republic has an extradition treaty with the US that existed long before the Internet did. This isn't rocket appliances, it's how our world's nation state system works. Sure, he probably shouldn't get 20 years and should receive…

> But to allow anyone to hack computer systems in the US because that person is not a US citizen and not in the US is borderline laughable. NSA does hacking every day so can other countries extradite and prosecute its employees?

As does China, Russia, Israel, England, France, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, and pretty much everyone else in the first world. What's your point? Comparing the actions of nation states to criminal enterprises, while fun, isn't really valid, especially when it comes to prosecution.

Re: Russian Hacker, Wanted by F.B.I., Is Arrested in Prague, Czechs Say

#144

Post by plugger » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 1:43 AM UTC

codedokode wrote: post #141

plugger wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By your logic prosecuting international computer crime wouldn't be possible. How do you expect that to work out in practice? Also, he was arrested in the Czech Republic, not Russia. The Czech Republic has an extradition treaty with the US that existed long before the Internet did. This isn't rocket appliances, it's how our world's nation state system works. Sure, he probably shouldn't get 20 years and should receive…

The current system is asymmetric. If US can extradite people from other countries for something they do on the Internet, why Russia, China or Iran cannot? US is showing a bad example here. Once some governments get more power they will want to do this too. This is actually a display of power by US. Maybe there should be some international agreements on how to deal with such cross-border crimes but they should be disc…

> why Russia, China or Iran cannot?

But they can. They need preexisting extradition agreements and it's all good. And the system isn't asymmetric. By their nature extradition agreements are bilateral and therefore symmetric.

How has Russia handled extradition requests from the UK for Litvinenko's accused murderers? That strikes me as a display of power by Russia. Would you agree?

> Maybe there should be some international agreements on how to deal with such cross-border crimes but they should be discussed and agreed upon by many countries.

They're called bilateral extradition treaties. That's exactly what's being leveraged here.

> I would rather prefer having american or russian systems disconnected from other countries than extraditing people into a foreign country to judge them by foreign laws.

And I would rather people not hack systems for financial gain. I'd also like daily rainbows and a unicorn to ride to and from work.

Re: Russian Hacker, Wanted by F.B.I., Is Arrested in Prague, Czechs Say

#145

Post by codedokode » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 1:44 AM UTC

plugger wrote: post #143

codedokode wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But to allow anyone to hack computer systems in the US because that person is not a US citizen and not in the US is borderline laughable. NSA does hacking every day so can other countries extradite and prosecute its employees?

As does China, Russia, Israel, England, France, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, and pretty much everyone else in the first world. What's your point? Comparing the actions of nation states to criminal enterprises, while fun, isn't really valid, especially when it comes to prosecution.

The problem here is that it is US who decides whether a foreign person is a criminal or not. The laws can be different in different countries and as I wrote above, posting a picture of Allah can be legal in one country and a serious crime in another. People even were killed for publishing such pictures.

Re: Russian Hacker, Wanted by F.B.I., Is Arrested in Prague, Czechs Say

#146

Post by codedokode » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 1:48 AM UTC

plugger wrote: post #143

codedokode wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But to allow anyone to hack computer systems in the US because that person is not a US citizen and not in the US is borderline laughable. NSA does hacking every day so can other countries extradite and prosecute its employees?

As does China, Russia, Israel, England, France, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, and pretty much everyone else in the first world. What's your point? Comparing the actions of nation states to criminal enterprises, while fun, isn't really valid, especially when it comes to prosecution.

From a point of view of victim I see no big difference between actions of nation state or a criminal. Should not they be treated equally?

Re: Russian Hacker, Wanted by F.B.I., Is Arrested in Prague, Czechs Say

#147

Post by plugger » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 1:53 AM UTC

codedokode wrote: post #145

plugger wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As does China, Russia, Israel, England, France, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, and pretty much everyone else in the first world. What's your point? Comparing the actions of nation states to criminal enterprises, while fun, isn't really valid, especially when it comes to prosecution.

The problem here is that it is US who decides whether a foreign person is a criminal or not. The laws can be different in different countries and as I wrote above, posting a picture of Allah can be legal in one country and a serious crime in another. People even were killed for publishing such pictures.

The problem here is that a Russian citizen targeted and hacked numerous US based computer systems. If an American citizen was hacking Russian computers and was caught in China I'm pretty confident that person would end up in Russia. I don't think you're being realistic here. Sure, differing laws can be an issue IF they aren't covered under the extradition treaty between the two countries. How can you not see this?

Re: Russian Hacker, Wanted by F.B.I., Is Arrested in Prague, Czechs Say

#148

Post by plugger » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 1:54 AM UTC

codedokode wrote: post #146

plugger wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As does China, Russia, Israel, England, France, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, and pretty much everyone else in the first world. What's your point? Comparing the actions of nation states to criminal enterprises, while fun, isn't really valid, especially when it comes to prosecution.

From a point of view of victim I see no big difference between actions of nation state or a criminal. Should not they be treated equally?

Sure, they should. But they aren't. And I don't believe this case will be the catalyst to change the status quo.

Re: Russian Hacker, Wanted by F.B.I., Is Arrested in Prague, Czechs Say

#149

Post by codedokode » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 1:59 AM UTC

plugger wrote: post #144

codedokode wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current system is asymmetric. If US can extradite people from other countries for something they do on the Internet, why Russia, China or Iran cannot? US is showing a bad example here. Once some governments get more power they will want to do this too. This is actually a display of power by US. Maybe there should be some international agreements on how to deal with such cross-border crimes but they should be disc…

> why Russia, China or Iran cannot? But they can. They need preexisting extradition agreements and it's all good. And the system isn't asymmetric. By their nature extradition agreements are bilateral and therefore symmetric. How has Russia handled extradition requests from the UK for Litvinenko's accused murderers? That strikes me as a display of power by Russia. Would you agree? > Maybe there should be some internat…

If you want to build an analogy the display of power by Russia would be if it requested to extradite Litvinenko for trial and UK would comply (I don't know if they tried to do it).

> But they can. They need preexisting extradition agreements and it's all good.

Then let's wait to see whether muslim countries can make such treaties and start judging westerners posting inappropriate jokes about Allah on Facebook. Such practice will just lead to a situation when international travel will become too dangerous and you'll have to consult a lawyer before going abroad.

Re: Russian Hacker, Wanted by F.B.I., Is Arrested in Prague, Czechs Say

#150

Post by plugger » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 2:10 AM UTC

codedokode wrote: post #149

plugger wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why Russia, China or Iran cannot? But they can. They need preexisting extradition agreements and it's all good. And the system isn't asymmetric. By their nature extradition agreements are bilateral and therefore symmetric. How has Russia handled extradition requests from the UK for Litvinenko's accused murderers? That strikes me as a display of power by Russia. Would you agree? > Maybe there should be some internat…

If you want to build an analogy the display of power by Russia would be if it requested to extradite Litvinenko for trial and UK would comply (I don't know if they tried to do it). > But they can. They need preexisting extradition agreements and it's all good. Then let's wait to see whether muslim countries can make such treaties and start judging westerners posting inappropriate jokes about Allah on Facebook. Such p…

> If you want to build an analogy the display of power by Russia would be if it requested to extradite Litvinenko for trial and UK would comply (I don't know if they tried to do it).

If you don't know if they tried then why even bring it up, especially since Litvinenko was killed by Russian Intelligence? Speaking of which, how do you feel about a Russian citizen being murdered by other Russian citizens in a foreign country? Does that concern you? Isn't THAT wrong? Obviously this person's rights for a fair trial was violated. As he was a Russian citizen, shouldn't he be judged in Russia instead of being murdered by the state?