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Where do all the old programmers go?

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81–90 of 103 posts

Re: Where do all the old programmers go?

#81
post #18

At about 40, it does start to get more difficult to get hired. And by 50, it is all but hopeless. And the salary offered begins to go down at 40 too. Sharply after 44 or so. Where I am now, at 51, I have had to learn to get by on what I was making as a SysAdmin 20 mumble years ago. But at least I have a job. Before getting my current job I was having to learn to get by without a place to live too.

I think average salary does go down, but mainly because the "growth track" keeps getting narrower. Seriously, in their twenties just about anyone can keep getting healthy salary increases year after year. It's normal and expected at that stage. By 35, maybe half have been pushed off the fast track, either onto other non-technical tracks or onto a lower technical track. By 40 it's three quarters, and so on. At my age (51) it seems like 90-95% of my cohort have changed roles or been pushed to the fringes where pay stagnates or declines.

Note that it's all based on perceived value, which is only partly based on actual value, which is only partly based on skill. I'm not trying to brag or put anyone down here. A lot of it has to do with what I said in another comment about specialization. Nobody wants to pay a thirty-year veteran's salary for a job where they don't already have deep expertise. People who can find jobs closely aligned with their skills and specialties often continue to do OK. People who can't - and it's usually more to do with shifts in the market than in them - get left out.

The sad fact is that many older programmers' skills and instincts often do apply outside their area of obvious expertise. Recognizing code smells or knowing how to test code properly are valuable skills in any specialty. So is communication, or scheduling, or being able to recognize and mentor up-and-coming young developers. Most older programmers - not just the few lucky ones - are well able to justify their salaries but never get the chance. That's a "soft" kind of ageism, but it's ageism nonetheless.

Re: Where do all the old programmers go?

#82

They take up farming, of course. Having explored the most 'modern' parts of society they're ready for a new challenge. Also, having dealt with virtuality for so long it is time for a dose of reality. Me, I bought a farm in Sweden. Harvest is in, manure has been spread, looking to grow my first 'beer crop' (barley and hops) within a few years. The forest needs some attention but that is what winter is for. What comes…

"manure has been spread"

Are you doing organic farming? Just asking out of interest.

Re: Where do all the old programmers go?

#83
post #82

They take up farming, of course. Having explored the most 'modern' parts of society they're ready for a new challenge. Also, having dealt with virtuality for so long it is time for a dose of reality. Me, I bought a farm in Sweden. Harvest is in, manure has been spread, looking to grow my first 'beer crop' (barley and hops) within a few years. The forest needs some attention but that is what winter is for. What comes…

"manure has been spread" Are you doing organic farming? Just asking out of interest.

Nothing certified, not following any doctrines and not connected to anything official but in practice yes. Just common sense, really.

Re: Where do all the old programmers go?

#84
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"manure has been spread" Are you doing organic farming? Just asking out of interest.

Nothing certified, not following any doctrines and not connected to anything official but in practice yes. Just common sense, really.

Yes it is.

Re: Where do all the old programmers go?

#85
post #12
post #9

Data point: I just turned 50, and I am happily coding away as a developer. Couldn't be happier - I still love to code.

Glad to hear - do you take special care of your wrists? I'm 32 and with some problems already...

Get worker's compensation now--don't wait. Physical therapy can help a lot! You'll have to improve your posture and start taking regular breaks (I use MacBreakz software). A stand/sit desk (I use a Jarvis) will probably help as will a good chair (I got a DXRacer). There are various accessories. I prefer the Kinesis Advantage 2 (http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/) and Apple's Magic Trackpad 2 (which fits in the center) of the Advantage.

The most important thing is not to wait to get treatment. Also, what works for you depends on how you have injured yourself so try out all the different things available and come up with your own setup. And if you're employed, getting on worker's comp has been a life saver (and probably saved me a few thousand dollars also, not to mention regular insurance maxes out after a small number of therapy visits). Some areas (bay area for example) have support groups. I haven't been but I hear they can help point you to good doctors / therapists. There's also a bunch of literature, books and websites out there with more detailed info than I can provide here (search for "repetitive stress injuries").

Re: Where do all the old programmers go?

#86
post #71

These articles are getting old. Pardon the pun. The main reason older programmers are so under-represented is that the field has grown exponentially over the past 2 decades. With ever larger influxes of college grads the previous smaller cohorts get more and more diluted across the industry. > "Many programmers find that their employability starts to decline at about age 35," Matloff writes. ... "Statistics show that…

I have a constant stream of "would you consider this great opportunity?" on LinkedIn despite the fact that one can easily reverse-engineer my approximate age from my profile.

I'm sure they could, if they bothered to actually read it (which basically no one ever does). In general, "feeler emails" are a poor measure of serious interest in one's overall profile.

Basically they're just trying to ping you to see if (1) you're in the market and (2) remotely interested. Then they'll actually look at your profile -- and make the kind of assessment you would have thought they made before reaching out to you.

Re: Where do all the old programmers go?

#87
post #74
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are some string keyswitches - I have seen a few people recommending against them if you have hand pain.

They don't type hard enough :-) Joke aside, I was mainly thinking about wrist problems. I think any normal sized, model-m layout or possibly split-layout keyboard with non-linear quality switches is ok. If the finger joints hurts, I suppose a lower activation force might be good - I guess one might be Cherry MX Brown, but I don't personally like anything else than buckling spring... The main message is that in my exp…

Sure, thanks! its also interesting that RSI was much rarer when secretaries wuold type all day on heavy typewriters...

Re: Where do all the old programmers go?

#88

They take up farming, of course. Having explored the most 'modern' parts of society they're ready for a new challenge. Also, having dealt with virtuality for so long it is time for a dose of reality. Me, I bought a farm in Sweden. Harvest is in, manure has been spread, looking to grow my first 'beer crop' (barley and hops) within a few years. The forest needs some attention but that is what winter is for. What comes…

Funny. I had my start in freelancing after a software developer left to start farming. I inherited his old application (which was VB front-end & Access DB) and converted it to an internal web-app.

But he definitely seemed pretty happy. :)

I remember sitting at my desk writing code at a client's one day. It was pissing down with rain - and I could see someone mowing the lawns outside. And at that moment (I wasn't particularly enjoying the work) I wished we could swap places. He looked happy.

Good luck with your farming!

Re: Where do all the old programmers go?

#90

They take up farming, of course. Having explored the most 'modern' parts of society they're ready for a new challenge. Also, having dealt with virtuality for so long it is time for a dose of reality. Me, I bought a farm in Sweden. Harvest is in, manure has been spread, looking to grow my first 'beer crop' (barley and hops) within a few years. The forest needs some attention but that is what winter is for. What comes…

Weird... I've had a strange urge to take up farming and hack the hell out of it. What's with that?
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