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Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud

stripe.com

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Re: Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud

#61

Post by detaro »

wmf wrote: post #59
fomojola wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've experienced 3D secure and verified by visa effectively insulating a merchant from chargeback risk (I'm talking 99% success rates winning chargebacks). You're right, it is incredibly user-hostile and truly painful to integrate (as compared to Stripe) but if you're in a business that sees a lot of people trying to rip you off it works wonders.

It works wonders in eliminating chargebacks by also eliminating legitimate customers?

Fewer customers but a lot less fraud could very well be the more profitable and safe option.

Re: Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud

#62

Post by jusben1369 »

tristanho wrote: post #35
falafel_muncher wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

doubtful that stripe has 100,000+ business customers. Kount is another good one, that's what Braintree uses apparently.

From the page linked: "We pinpoint fraud by building behavioral signals from across 100,000+ global companies." Apparently they do ;)

Couldn't that refer to buyers of their customers vs the actual customer count?

Re: Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud

#63

Post by jusben1369 »

ihsw wrote: post #7
uladzislau wrote: post #6

What is the advantage of this vs SiftScience or other tools?

The data is from Stripe's handling of 100,000+ businesses' transactions, probably a better dataset than SiftScience. That's a big probably .

I would think that cuts both ways. SiftScience only needs to have a few big retail clients and they'll be doing a huge volume. More to the point I would think Stripe's strength here is their weakness....they're only as good as the users they have on Stripe vs Sift which might have a broader mix of datasets. Of course, as Stripe continues to grow that weakness will diminish.

Re: Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud

#64

Post by rwmurrayVT »

I think the "golden age" of online fraud is coming to an end quickly. I've posted quite heavily on Stripe and fraud threads on HN previously if you want to read my comment history.

This is a big step for Stripe. I've often asked why they didn't have an integration with MaxMind or SiftScience already set up. They've been building their own behind-the-scenes the entire time! This feature is fantastic if you are a merchant and want to avoid fraud.

To me, the more interesting side of online credit card fraud is the merchant/payment processor side. Stripe has a cult-like following in the fraud world because it's known as the the easiest target. They make it so easy to sign up and process transactions compared to other services like Authorize.net/BrainTree/etc. They've shed this label recently, in part because the biggest forum thread discussing it was closed. The other reason was because it became so much more difficult. With this release, I think it's simply because they could identify accounts with high numbers of suspected fraudulent transactions. All the fraudsters were used to just signing up, running charges on their webstore with sock5, and waiting 2 days for bank transfers. Now Stripe can identify those transactions well in advance and assign each account a risk score. Previously, Stripe had to identify the account risk by sales volume, chargebacks, bank account provider, sign up IP, and every one's favourite privacy invader IESnare.

Fraudster's have one last shining hope against Stripe. Passing their card data to Stripe via API, instead of Stripe.JS/Checkout. Radar only works with Stripe.JS/Checkout. Setting up your own web server to pass card information prevents them from ever seeing any IP address except the web server. All you have to do to get them to be okay with this is to turn over a PCI self-compliance form. Rumour on the internet has it that there's a pre-built web application specifically for charging Stripe accounts via API.

I'm still looking for a job in fraud prevention friends at Stripe :D

Re: Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud

#65

Post by sandGorgon »

tarstarr wrote: post #28
aantix wrote: post #13

It's a bit unclear to me; these rules appear to be automated but then they show a rule builder interface? How would I ever know if the rule I've built is too constraining, or too loose in accepting payments? Payment is not exactly an area of my business that I want to do a lot of trial and error..

(I work at Stripe) Stripe's already actioning charges based on the feedback from the machine learning models. We hope that they'll take care of most fraud for you. If you do want to write custom rules on top of what the models are doing, we've actually built in a testing interface to the rule creation process. When you test a rule, we'll actually simulate what the rule would have done had it been active for the past…

hmm.. did you build a backtester that runs every time you test a rule ?

Re: Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud

#66

Post by morgante »

detaro wrote: post #61
wmf wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works wonders in eliminating chargebacks by also eliminating legitimate customers?

Fewer customers but a lot less fraud could very well be the more profitable and safe option.

Perhaps, but it's important to actually run that calculation. After all, shutting down web payments entirely would totally eliminate fraud—but also cripple your business in the process.

Personally, I will never use a 3D Secure system these days. If you require it, I'll simply skip purchasing.

Re: Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud

#67

Post by tyingq »

patmcguire wrote: post #16

I work at a company with a fairly large number of transactions and we don't really have a problem with fraud. I don't know anyone else who's really battled it either. Is it much more prevalent for certain industries and products?

The most common scenario where we experience credit card fraud is high value items ($500+) and a freight forwarder.

The scammer orders the item, using the billing address of the legitimate owner of the card, but a shipping address that corresponds with a freight forwarding operation. These places offer a US address, but forward the shipments on to various places, including South America, islands in the Caribbean, etc.

Typically, the legit card owner notices the transaction way after it's shipped, and files a chargeback. As with all "card not present" transactions, the shop owner then foots the bill, including a chargeback fee.

It took about 3 times getting burned before we took the time to put some countermeasures in place. The most helpful were geo-ip location for the purchase itself, and a "flag this for review" filter for anything going to the Miami area and/or anything with a longish suite number, keywords (freight, global), etc.

Edit: Worth noting that most credit card fraud solutions I've seen don't have a way to take the shipping address (as opposed to billing address) as part of the data to check. For the type of fraud noted above, it's vital. Geo-ip doesn't work well when the buyer is using a US proxy, or US based accomplice.

Re: Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud

#69

Post by jbpetersen »

robotnoises wrote: post #23

Stripe consistently produces some of the best-looking web design out there.

Agreed, their design gets high marks on executing current trends well, having a distinct brand, and being functional to interact with. And that's on top of serious talent and execution on the tech and business angles as well.

I can't wait to see how they expand as a company going forward and would absolutely love to work with them if I wasn't preoccupied with more personal pursuits.

Re: Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud

#70

Post by patmcguire »

tyingq wrote: post #67
patmcguire wrote: post #16

I work at a company with a fairly large number of transactions and we don't really have a problem with fraud. I don't know anyone else who's really battled it either. Is it much more prevalent for certain industries and products?

The most common scenario where we experience credit card fraud is high value items ($500+) and a freight forwarder. The scammer orders the item, using the billing address of the legitimate owner of the card, but a shipping address that corresponds with a freight forwarding operation. These places offer a US address, but forward the shipments on to various places, including South America, islands in the Caribbean, etc…

Yeah, before your last line I was wondering, "does this story end with it being impossible to get anything delivered to those addresses deemed sketchy?" Guess not yet.
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