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Do the math: too much calculus? (2012)

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Re: Do the math: too much calculus? (2012)

#31
I am not sure how much of this is specific to the American education system, as I am Canadian, and have not experienced it, but my own take after going through high school to my current graduate studies is that

1) We teach algebra, geometry, and their relationship wrong in many ways

2) We don't teach enough calculus at lower levels of mathematics, instead opting to prefer a "poor man's" algebra.

I'm sure there's too much to write on for one HN comment, but a lot of 1) comes down to how we teach "solve for x" type problems which are more interested in re-ordering and simplifying equations than we are about giving people a fundamental understanding of what our relations and equations actually mean. Often I notice that many students couldn't graph or draw or even begin to reason about what they're trying to solve for. If you give someone a graph and ask them to find the maximum point of a line on a graph, they can very easily point it out. The next step is doing it numerically, but a lot of times the relationship between what we can determine visually and what we can determine computationally is lost.

Which is sort of what prompts 2). You can't learn Calculus without learning limits, and Calculus places explicit meanings to relations that we can graph, and how those relations change according to specific variables or unknowns. Finding the maximum of a relation using Calculus is much easier than strictly using algebra for this reason, because we can make the relationships between a curve and it's derivative explicit. Most students cringe at the thought of Calculus because we place it on a pedestal and students just assume Calculus is the peak of mathematics, but we really need to introduce Calculus as more "normal" math earlier on, IMO. I'm talking basic tasks like derivatives finding the equation of a line tangent to a curve, or finding the limit as we approach a point on a curve, or even just (re)factoring equations so that we can plot them easier and / or take their derivative easier.

In almost every example I can think of where I learned Calculus, it was easier than building intuition for Algebra because there is less robotic crunching and more reasoning about what specific problems mean. What does it mean to take the derivative? Why are volume and area and perimeter related? I know in many ways it seems like I'm just advocating for thinking spatially or visually about mathematical problems, but that's part of what (I think) makes Calculus more approachable. You can get a lot farther with a basic understanding of Algebra and a very small amount of Calculus than you can with just Algebra alone. Should our curriculum be entirely Calculus? No, that's ridiculous; however we should ease up on the systems-of-equations type problems and obtuse word problems that require students to produce or remember all manner of expressions and formulae, and instead focus on building that first intuition of how we can use Calculus as a tool for problems that are much, much harder without. I expect that it would give Calculus a more realistic reputation, and would probably put off less students who are already giving up on math.

Re: Do the math: too much calculus? (2012)

#32
post #6

I think we teach Calculus wrong in a deep fundamental way. We should incorporate more high math concepts earlier into education BUT people are always afraid of anything past 4th grade math! "A minority of students then wend their way through geometry, trigonometry and, finally, calculus, which is considered the pinnacle of high-school-level math. But this progression actually “has nothing to do with how people think,…

>BUT people are always afraid of anything past 4th grade math!

Then the solution is simple! We teach calculus to 3rd graders, then no one will be afraid of it!

But seriously, I agree that calculus is taught way to late. I wasn't introduce to calculus until college, and if I had been even by senior year of high school, I would probably be a mathematician right now.

Re: Do the math: too much calculus? (2012)

#33
post #30

I remember once when when driving I was pleased when it occurred to me that I should be seeking to minimise the third derivative of distance with respect to time for the comfort of my passengers. That was the sum total of calculus's contribution to my adult life. Not sure it was worth it.

Curves in freeways are designed that way as well - they don't just start turning suddenly, but gradually transition into and out of the curvature.

Re: Do the math: too much calculus? (2012)

#34
I have no idea why calculus gets such exalted status in the annals of highschool nightmares. No I am not bragging, humble or otherwise. I found calculus to be simple neat and logical, and not so mind bending. Linear algebra on the other hand was far less trivial; not the mechanics, the aha moment bit. Geometry.. that for me was genuine mind bending pleasure pain.

Re: Do the math: too much calculus? (2012)

#36
post #32
post #6

I think we teach Calculus wrong in a deep fundamental way. We should incorporate more high math concepts earlier into education BUT people are always afraid of anything past 4th grade math! "A minority of students then wend their way through geometry, trigonometry and, finally, calculus, which is considered the pinnacle of high-school-level math. But this progression actually “has nothing to do with how people think,…

>BUT people are always afraid of anything past 4th grade math! Then the solution is simple! We teach calculus to 3rd graders, then no one will be afraid of it! But seriously, I agree that calculus is taught way to late. I wasn't introduce to calculus until college, and if I had been even by senior year of high school, I would probably be a mathematician right now.

In the US, problem #1 is that it is very hard to find people who understand Mathematics sufficiently well to teach it effectively, who are willing to work for the salary typically paid to a teacher.

For example, my 8th grader is being taught "Higher School Algebra" by a teacher who last year taught 5th grade and by all accounts has to leave the classroom often to get tips on the material from the 7th grade math teacher.

Re: Do the math: too much calculus? (2012)

#37
post #9
post #6

I think we teach Calculus wrong in a deep fundamental way. We should incorporate more high math concepts earlier into education BUT people are always afraid of anything past 4th grade math! "A minority of students then wend their way through geometry, trigonometry and, finally, calculus, which is considered the pinnacle of high-school-level math. But this progression actually “has nothing to do with how people think,…

Berkeley EECS grad. I didn't go the device physics route but I used calculus about twice in 4 years except in physics classes.

That really makes no sense, unless the "EE" part was optional in your case.

Re: Do the math: too much calculus? (2012)

#38
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have done much better in math if the class after Geometry was something other than pre-trig.

As an alien to the US education system, I am always completely confused by these 'pre-' course designations. What on earth is 'pre-trig' or 'pre-calc'? I mean, I got all the way up to undergraduate level in mathematics and I never needed to learn 'pre-' anything.

The idea of a "pre-" course is that you cover ideas needed for the later course. For example, a "pre-calc" course typically covers the sort of algebra that you would need in calculus but not actually integrating or differentiating anything. It's a matter of naming. You could call it "Algebra II" or "pre-calc".

Re: Do the math: too much calculus? (2012)

#39
post #6

I think we teach Calculus wrong in a deep fundamental way. We should incorporate more high math concepts earlier into education BUT people are always afraid of anything past 4th grade math! "A minority of students then wend their way through geometry, trigonometry and, finally, calculus, which is considered the pinnacle of high-school-level math. But this progression actually “has nothing to do with how people think,…

We should teach early calculus along with entry-level SR/GTR instead of rehashed Newtonian crap. Unite math and physics for a while, and kids might actually see the point of it.
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