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Where do all the old programmers go?

infoworld.com

71–80 of 103 posts

Re: Where do all the old programmers go?

#71
These articles are getting old. Pardon the pun.

The main reason older programmers are so under-represented is that the field has grown exponentially over the past 2 decades. With ever larger influxes of college grads the previous smaller cohorts get more and more diluted across the industry.

> "Many programmers find that their employability starts to decline at about age 35," Matloff writes. ... "Statistics show that most software developers are out of the field by age 40," Matloff continues ... (Matloff declines to mention which statistics he's reading.)

So basically he's spouting BS to match his talking point.

IMO, older programmers who have done good work in the past are at a major advantage: we have a network of former co-workers who can speak to our abilities better than any whiteboard interview can and who can alert their managers/recruiters that we are someone worth going after.

I realize my experience is anecdotal, however having made two job changes in my 40s, my experience could not be more different from what Matloff implies:

- When chatting with former co-workers, if I even remotely hint at considering a switch, I have their recruiters kicking down my door the next day.

- I have employers skip phone screens to get me into a loop faster in the hopes of getting a jump on other potential employers.

- I've had some offers without interviewing both times I was looking for my next gig. Other offers' interviews felt like formalities because they had to have a loop in the big company HR system.

- I have a constant stream of "would you consider this great opportunity?" on LinkedIn despite the fact that one can easily reverse-engineer my approximate age from my profile.

- etc., etc.

It doesn't feel like "employability starts to decline at about age 35" from where I'm sitting. And lest I be labelled some special outlier, I have a good number of friends & former co-workers in the mid-40s age bracket who are having similar experiences.

The fact that a handful of SV startup bros only want to hire their long-lost twins doesn't make the bulk of the industry old-programmer-averse.

Re: Where do all the old programmers go?

#72
post #67
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are willing to share, I'd be curious to hear more about your situation. I've seen salary plateau at certain career levels and ages (40s usually), but saying salary goes down at all (let alone sharply) is something that I expect is not a general truth about the market at large. My anecdotal data comes from ~20 years in recruiting engineers. There are several reasons you could see a salary drop (stagnating skill…

If ageism is the direct cause of the move to less green pastures that kind of circularizes the argument.

The direct cause of the move to less green pastures was being broke and hungry.

Re: Where do all the old programmers go?

#73

They take up farming, of course. Having explored the most 'modern' parts of society they're ready for a new challenge. Also, having dealt with virtuality for so long it is time for a dose of reality. Me, I bought a farm in Sweden. Harvest is in, manure has been spread, looking to grow my first 'beer crop' (barley and hops) within a few years. The forest needs some attention but that is what winter is for. What comes…

While not ready for retirement I'm getting up there and I am buying a house soon with between 1/4-1/2 acre piece of land attached. Its a reward and opportunity for me to experiment with a large "garden" for myself and my family and maybe enough for friends or to can/jar. I get this impulse but I'm still plugged in enough to want to automate things. I'm looking at farmbot on kickstarter and thinking how I could build…

I'm not retired, by no means - I'm 51. I'll keep on hacking for as long as I feel the urge and find some need. I do concentrate on trying to make our (way of) life less dependent on a steady income stream - in other words, I use time and some money to make us less dependent on future money. A farm with enough land to support a family is a good start, especially one which has both arable land as well as productive forest. Hence my choice, although the fact that I studied forestry at an agricultural university might have something to do with it as well.

Re: Where do all the old programmers go?

#74
post #59
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buy a Model M or at least avoid laptop keyboards that are extra small. Do some heavy lifting now and again, so that the hands are used for real stuff.

Those are some string keyswitches - I have seen a few people recommending against them if you have hand pain.

They don't type hard enough :-)

Joke aside, I was mainly thinking about wrist problems. I think any normal sized, model-m layout or possibly split-layout keyboard with non-linear quality switches is ok.

If the finger joints hurts, I suppose a lower activation force might be good - I guess one might be Cherry MX Brown, but I don't personally like anything else than buckling spring...

The main message is that in my experience, laptops in your lap is the worst, and exercise helps.

Re: Where do all the old programmers go?

#76

> you'll probably check the box next to "project manager" instead of "software developer" Actually that's a demotion as far as I can tell.

Right?! Engineers reporting to non-engineers is a bit of an anti pattern. A front line manager needs to manage the work being done and not just the schedule.

Re: Where do all the old programmers go?

#77
I have a question for all the veteran devs out there.

How do you keep from getting burned out on the mismanagement that plagues our industry?

Is it personal perseverance? Are you just super selective with what jobs you take? Is the love of building something stronger than any feelings of frustration with poor management?

Re: Where do all the old programmers go?

#78

They take up farming, of course. Having explored the most 'modern' parts of society they're ready for a new challenge. Also, having dealt with virtuality for so long it is time for a dose of reality. Me, I bought a farm in Sweden. Harvest is in, manure has been spread, looking to grow my first 'beer crop' (barley and hops) within a few years. The forest needs some attention but that is what winter is for. What comes…

Funny enough, I also went farming route: bought vineyards four years ago. I am curently thinking about getting into aeroponics herbs/lettuce production with all the automation.

Re: Where do all the old programmers go?

#79

GTFO of "the valley" and you can have a very productive career past your 40's. Seriously, I know this is HN, but the world doesn't revolve around SJ and SF.

Irony: I work with a group of about a half dozen devs for ... UC Davis (same uni as the prof mentioned in the article). We are all 50-ish, and work with minimal hand holding. We do grant work for the state, and to some extent, the federal government. We are not doing "super scalable" stuff, but we still have thousands of users, many daily, and some of the entry forms for things are huge , with much complicated logic…

Or VB classic in the '90s.

Re: Where do all the old programmers go?

#80
post #69

There are lots of developers in their forties and some in their fifties at our company. We would be happy to hire more.

  >> lots of developers in their forties and some in their fifties at our company. We would be happy to hire more.
You can try oldgeekjobs.com
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