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T-Mobile will pay a $48M fine for throttling ‘unlimited data’ plans

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Re: T-Mobile will pay a $48M fine for throttling ‘unlimited data’ plans

#61
post #4

It's great that the FCC does this for cell carriers, but they still are letting the data caps apply on home connections, which is going to do nothing except increase profits and decrease innovation.

This is completely false. If you look at how businesses generally work, they're trying to get a certain amount of revenue in order to balance their budget and make a profit. Then they decide how to get it. Data caps are fantastic . Because it means when they're raising their prices, they're charging the users who most use it, rather than just raising the price for everyone. If you're being asked to pay for overage on…

No. Data caps (and bandwidth limits to some extent) are fundamentally broken.

My water company doesn't shut off my water because I took too many long showers this month. My gas company doesn't shut the valve because I had a few extra loads of laundry to run through the dryer. My electric company doesn't kill the lights because I was working on my car and used the 220V in the garage a lot this month.

Instead they install a meter at the inlet, charge me for exactly what I use (and when I use it!!!) and then they can plan their capacity based around their billings. If I need more inlets (too much current at the mains breaker, not enough gas or water pressure, etc.) then they charge me a fair price for the hardware and installation and bill that new inlet in the exact same way.

It's simple, transparent, and completely controllable by me. (If I don't want to rack up a larger bill this month I just close the inlet.)

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Caps and overages are a very different model: they are charging me much more than the normal cost of service once I cross some threshold or cutting off my service. That'd be like my power company saying: "you've used more than the average 901kWH, so you're going to have to pay the industrial rate on the rest of your consumption this month."

More importantly, since private companies are running the show, we have no real insight into what average data consumption for the populace even looks like. You take it on their word that the plans they market align w/ the reality of average use. We can't verify that's the case because they don't legally have to publish it.

Essentially these companies could be telling you "640k ought to be enough for anybody", and you're arguing that it's perfectly reasonable for them to say anyone using >640k is the top 3% and should be billed at a premium. That's not the sort of thinking that pushes the state of the art forward, in fact it's actively harmful and disincentivizes upgrades to the network.

Their pricing model doesn't line up with the reality of a band-limited service, and they don't give us nearly enough information to verify their claims of what constitutes an "above average" consumer of data.

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- Wireline service should be billed as a metered utility.

- Wireless service should have a fixed access fee to cover the cost of expanding the network (as well as providing E911, etc.) along with a variable access fee that is billed as a metered utility.

Anything else is borderline fraud, and I'm frankly sick of having to navigate the minefield of dishonesty that is consumer-grade ISP pricing schemes.

Re: T-Mobile will pay a $48M fine for throttling ‘unlimited data’ plans

#62

I ..... thought T-Mobile's policy was generally well known? Especially in the face of a few years ago, At&t hitting up folks for astronomical bills when iPhones were new, and folks were blasting past their data limits? I've had data with them since they were VoiceStream, and knew what each data plan offered. Anyone who asked, I told them that T-Mobile's policy was WAY more consumer friendly than the other carriers, e…

It is now, because of this suit. The throttling itself is not the issue- as other people are pointing out, it's arguably preferable to overage charges or bandwidth caps- it's the fact that T-Mobile wasn't making this clear to customers.

Re: T-Mobile will pay a $48M fine for throttling ‘unlimited data’ plans

#63
post #47

Here's the thing, I would much rather have reasonable throttling with unlimited data, then either $10.00 per GB, or worse yet, multiple times that as an overage penalty. Especially with a family plan when the non-bill-payers on the plan don't understand overage fees. So the way I understood it (at least under the plan that I signed up for before "binge-on" was added), T-Mobile would charge $20 (on top of the regular…

Yep, T-Mobile's actual practices are consumer-friendly; this is just a debate on the marketing language of "flat rate" vs. "unlimited".

Re: T-Mobile will pay a $48M fine for throttling ‘unlimited data’ plans

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I hate TMobile for throttling me so many times over the last few years, BUT: That's more than a slap on the wrist. It's 10% of their profit. How would you like to be fined 10% of your leftover money after your bills are paid? That's a decent chunk of skin. I actually believe it's a pretty fair punishment. I believe comparing it to revenue is irrelevant because it's an extremely capital-intensive process. If it ta…

I see your point. I wonder, though, which fundamental the fine should be compared to. I'm not sure if profit is really the right one. Of course I'm no expert.

Increase your costs so you make very little "profit" on paper. Shareholders wouldn't like it, but your fines would be close to 0.

Profit is a terrible metric, it measures the efficiency of your organization.

Re: T-Mobile will pay a $48M fine for throttling ‘unlimited data’ plans

#65

It's bullshit that they can offer consumers an option to buy accessories at a discount (which they probably still make a profit on) as a reparation for this. I want direct monetary compensation.

> It's bullshit that they can offer consumers an option to buy accessories at a discount (which they probably still make a profit on) as a reparation for this.

If this were a class action, would the lawyers accept getting paid a truckload of iPhone 7 cases?

Re: T-Mobile will pay a $48M fine for throttling ‘unlimited data’ plans

#66

I ..... thought T-Mobile's policy was generally well known? Especially in the face of a few years ago, At&t hitting up folks for astronomical bills when iPhones were new, and folks were blasting past their data limits? I've had data with them since they were VoiceStream, and knew what each data plan offered. Anyone who asked, I told them that T-Mobile's policy was WAY more consumer friendly than the other carriers, e…

It is now , because of this suit. The throttling itself is not the issue- as other people are pointing out, it's arguably preferable to overage charges or bandwidth caps- it's the fact that T-Mobile wasn't making this clear to customers.

It's also arguably preferable to cutting off a finger!

Re: T-Mobile will pay a $48M fine for throttling ‘unlimited data’ plans

#67

$48 million seems like a slap on the wrist. T-Mobile made $32 billion in revenue in 2015 and just posted $479 million in profit. I wish I could feel like these fines actually acted as a deterrent.

This is kind of an awkward question, but what was the actual harm to customers here? The throttling only affected a small percentage of users downloading much more data than the norm; and I doubt they would've gone to another provider if T-Mobile had clearly spelled out what was happening: they would've been charged hundreds of dollars do this on VZN/ATT/Sprint instead. It was deceptive advertising and it should be punished,but we're not talking about banks incorrectly foreclosing on homes here. I don't know if crushingly huge punitive fines are appropriate.

Re: T-Mobile will pay a $48M fine for throttling ‘unlimited data’ plans

#68
post #47

Here's the thing, I would much rather have reasonable throttling with unlimited data, then either $10.00 per GB, or worse yet, multiple times that as an overage penalty. Especially with a family plan when the non-bill-payers on the plan don't understand overage fees. So the way I understood it (at least under the plan that I signed up for before "binge-on" was added), T-Mobile would charge $20 (on top of the regular…

> Of course, it would be nice if they spelled out all of this in their advertising and product literature (and if this was still the case with their current plans). Which is ultimately the problem here. They didn't spell this out or make explicit this practice. I agree with you, it makes sense, and I find it acceptable...but they definitely should have made it obvious and well documented.

Exactly. As an unlimited customer who has used, at times, upwards of 60GB / month this was never made clear and their representatives have absolutely lied about. When I signed up I was skeptical as any so I spent a good bit of time grilling them, and this was never mentioned anywhere. I've never heard of it in any advertisement nor seen any disclaimer. I've received no warning about their activity. I switched over about four years ago and have been wholeheartedly recommending it as a good carrier, but things like this severely diminish T-Mobile's luster in my mind.

Re: T-Mobile will pay a $48M fine for throttling ‘unlimited data’ plans

#69
post #47

Here's the thing, I would much rather have reasonable throttling with unlimited data, then either $10.00 per GB, or worse yet, multiple times that as an overage penalty. Especially with a family plan when the non-bill-payers on the plan don't understand overage fees. So the way I understood it (at least under the plan that I signed up for before "binge-on" was added), T-Mobile would charge $20 (on top of the regular…

I think that's fine, you just can't sell people something different from what you said you were selling them.

That is, the infraction is about honesty. I think rulings like this are important. If you can't know if your plan throttles more aggressively than another, you can't make the choice and competitive pressure is taken off the market.

Re: T-Mobile will pay a $48M fine for throttling ‘unlimited data’ plans

#70
post #42
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can T-Mobile dictate what quality video you get?

As I understand it they're ultimately just doing traffic shaping. If the edge of their network thinks you're downloading a video stream they'll throttle the throughput to ~3.5Mbps. This is approximately equivalent to a 480p stream, so intelligent streaming apps (e.g: Netflix, YouTube, et al.) will notice this and downgrade the quality to avoid buffer stalls. On their new plan "T-Mobile One" this behavior is always on…

3.5Mbps? That's actually quite a lot; you can get solid 720p at that speed. Or watch any twitch stream at max quality.
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