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Virus and Two Types of Bacteria as Major Causes of Alzheimer’s

neurosciencenews.com

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Re: Virus and Two Types of Bacteria as Major Causes of Alzheimer’s

#11

Post by randcraw »

pcrh wrote: post #6

The problem really lies with the fact that within the more than 100,000 published studies on Alzheimer's disease you are bound to find a random association between this disease and many other things. This is especially true for observational studies in people, and also true for low-powered studies in experimental animals. Experimental science, however, demands that one establishes a cause and effect relationship. The…

Yes. I think few non-medical researchers realize how limited the value of a particular correlation generally proves to be. The more you work with biomedical data, the more you appreciate the limited value of big R values when no plausible mechanism of action accompanies it. Given enough metrics, it's common to find one with perfect correspondence to a disease's biomarkers or symptoms. Lab biologists and chemists have long ago lost interest in exploring all the miraculous sure-fire yet inexplicable signals found by data scientists. The solution in this case is for the paper's authors to spend THEIR OWN grant money underwriting the clinical trials to explore their 'discovery'.

Re: Virus and Two Types of Bacteria as Major Causes of Alzheimer’s

#13

Post by sc4th1s »

pcrh wrote: post #6

The problem really lies with the fact that within the more than 100,000 published studies on Alzheimer's disease you are bound to find a random association between this disease and many other things. This is especially true for observational studies in people, and also true for low-powered studies in experimental animals. Experimental science, however, demands that one establishes a cause and effect relationship. The…

There is a cure for the mouse model of Alzheimers: http://www.fusfoundation.org/news/1535-new-pre-clinical-rese...

Re: Virus and Two Types of Bacteria as Major Causes of Alzheimer’s

#14

Post by nonbel »

randcraw wrote: post #11
pcrh wrote: post #6

The problem really lies with the fact that within the more than 100,000 published studies on Alzheimer's disease you are bound to find a random association between this disease and many other things. This is especially true for observational studies in people, and also true for low-powered studies in experimental animals. Experimental science, however, demands that one establishes a cause and effect relationship. The…

Yes. I think few non-medical researchers realize how limited the value of a particular correlation generally proves to be. The more you work with biomedical data, the more you appreciate the limited value of big R values when no plausible mechanism of action accompanies it. Given enough metrics, it's common to find one with perfect correspondence to a disease's biomarkers or symptoms. Lab biologists and chemists have…

>"how limited the value of a particular correlation generally proves to be"

I would go further. In my medical research work I saw dozens, probably hundreds of "statistically significant" correlations between different variables in a rather small dataset. I found them just by taking different subsets or summarizing the same data in a few different ways.

I didn't find any interesting and so published nothing about them, but I am sure others could build entire careers out of coming up with narratives to explain those correlations.

I have to think that people who have trouble finding correlations are either clueless about exploring the data (eg have only ever looked at dynamite plots of their results) or are measuring something so swamped by instrumental noise it is meaningless.

Re: Virus and Two Types of Bacteria as Major Causes of Alzheimer’s

#15

Post by eth0up »

It's interesting that viral/bacterial/fungal infections may be attributed to Alzheimer's - although undemocratically so, I still suspect prions as a culprit. Below is a link to a lecture by Professor James Ironside, University of Edinburgh, on the subject of prions. Whether such suspicions are valid or not, prions are very easy to be fascinated by, and it's a great lecture, IMO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlIYGYA5q0s

Re: Virus and Two Types of Bacteria as Major Causes of Alzheimer’s

#16

Post by 1_over_n »

slightly off topic but i remember a study from 2010 where it was found beetroots could help with older adults brain health

the sample size was not huge (14 i think) and it was cited nitrates are the beneficial agent. It would be interesting to see if there is any association between the suggested offending microbial activity and nitrates in vitro before moving on to some sort of in vivo model

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/11/101102130957.h...

Re: Virus and Two Types of Bacteria as Major Causes of Alzheimer’s

#17

Post by pge »

randcraw wrote: post #11
pcrh wrote: post #6

The problem really lies with the fact that within the more than 100,000 published studies on Alzheimer's disease you are bound to find a random association between this disease and many other things. This is especially true for observational studies in people, and also true for low-powered studies in experimental animals. Experimental science, however, demands that one establishes a cause and effect relationship. The…

Yes. I think few non-medical researchers realize how limited the value of a particular correlation generally proves to be. The more you work with biomedical data, the more you appreciate the limited value of big R values when no plausible mechanism of action accompanies it. Given enough metrics, it's common to find one with perfect correspondence to a disease's biomarkers or symptoms. Lab biologists and chemists have…

Obligatory XKCD reference: https://www.xkcd.com/882/

Re: Virus and Two Types of Bacteria as Major Causes of Alzheimer’s

#19

Post by inputcoffee »

I read, with great hope, every Alzheimer's breakthrough but in the last year alone the key has been found out to be:

1. Exercise for oxygen

2. Gum disease

3. Standing up and feeling a head rush

4. blood sugar and diabetes

If we can believe each of these 4 is the key insight within 12 months, I have to wonder at the state of our knowledge about the disease.

Re: Virus and Two Types of Bacteria as Major Causes of Alzheimer’s

#20

Post by klenwell »

pcrh wrote: post #6

The problem really lies with the fact that within the more than 100,000 published studies on Alzheimer's disease you are bound to find a random association between this disease and many other things. This is especially true for observational studies in people, and also true for low-powered studies in experimental animals. Experimental science, however, demands that one establishes a cause and effect relationship. The…

While I doubt that Alzheimer's is caused by infectious agents, there really is no harm in trying (except perhaps to the pockets of the trial's sponsors).

Or to taxpayers when some pharmaceutical company finds a specious statistical correlation between Alzheimer's and an infectious agent that one of their products happens to treat.

A cynical view, yes. Borne out of my reading of Bad Pharma and coming across at least one startup whose business model was to do this with genetic tests.

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