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UK Government proposes porn-viewing ID

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Re: UK Government proposes porn-viewing ID

#31

Post by adrianN »

cyberpunk wrote: post #21
tachion wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you seriously think this is a viable solution that doesn't compromise society freedoms and scales well really securing children at the same time? I am really, really sceptical about that. Are we guarding our kids when they play with their friends, who can expose them to all kind of nasty content/ideas/materials/behaviours? Are we censoring ads that are everywhere and are filled with sexual/erotic conotations? Are…

Proper advice/education is really the only solution. We all know how ridiculous any attempts to censor the internet is to people with even a minimal amount of tech savvy, especially if gov.uk are involved... I mean, take the UK's attempt to block e.g thepiratebay.org which is defeated by simply putting https:// infront of it (at least, currently, on virgin media).. The actual issue here though is the progression that…

I hear that the censors in China are pretty successful. It's certainly technically possible.

Re: UK Government proposes porn-viewing ID

#32

Post by belorn »

mobiuscog wrote: post #2

Something has to be done. It's not just about porn or violence of NSFL etc... but there is a serious problem on the internet, that is always lambasted with the "Won't somebody think of the children" memes. When society has reached a point that anybody with internet access can, simply by 'accidentally' going to the wrong website, be exposed to imagery that really is not going to help them be well-adjusted in life, wit…

There used to be a option here in Sweden and elsewhere in the world, and it was called the national censors. They would look at movies, tv, music, books, and decide if it posed a serous problem where someone could 'accidentally' be exposed and harm the efforts to be well-adjusted citizens.

And, in most part, it was not that bad. Sure, Swedes could not watch the Texas Chain Saw Massacre, and the UK banned Monthy Python, and the US banned Show Girls, but was it really so bad? Well, maybe... Okey it was pretty bad and society discarded that system for a very good reason.

Re: UK Government proposes porn-viewing ID

#33

Post by Kenji »

mobiuscog wrote: post #2

Something has to be done. It's not just about porn or violence of NSFL etc... but there is a serious problem on the internet, that is always lambasted with the "Won't somebody think of the children" memes. When society has reached a point that anybody with internet access can, simply by 'accidentally' going to the wrong website, be exposed to imagery that really is not going to help them be well-adjusted in life, wit…

There is no problem. I grew up with the internet. Had full access as a kid. Many people did too. The only problem is that fascists want to control the internet, that's the real problem.

Re: UK Government proposes porn-viewing ID

#34

Post by mobiuscog »

viraptor wrote: post #13
mobiuscog wrote: post #2

Something has to be done. It's not just about porn or violence of NSFL etc... but there is a serious problem on the internet, that is always lambasted with the "Won't somebody think of the children" memes. When society has reached a point that anybody with internet access can, simply by 'accidentally' going to the wrong website, be exposed to imagery that really is not going to help them be well-adjusted in life, wit…

> simply by 'accidentally' going to the wrong website, be exposed to imagery Is that a real problem though? You did quote the accidentally after all. Both kids and adults have access to things they seek - whether that's going to be internet, magazine brought to school, or some other means. If they don't seek such content, they won't see much more than what's already available to everyone in the daily mail. I think th…

It's certainly easy to stumble across unsavoury content - I have done so accidentally in the past and was amazed how easy it was.

I can't say how much of a problem it is, but then I suspect nobody can.

As a parent (and yes, as stated already, I do limit internet access) I know that most parents definitely wouldn't want these things to be viewed early in life - I have no problem with adults viewing whatever they want, although I would suggest that people who constantly search for the NSFL content are possibly not well adjusted.

I don't claim to know the answer - I just get the impression that these options are always pushed away due to 'freedom' but there is little alternative offered to help society maintain a healthy mental balance.

Re: UK Government proposes porn-viewing ID

#35

Post by tachion »

cyberpunk wrote: post #21
tachion wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you seriously think this is a viable solution that doesn't compromise society freedoms and scales well really securing children at the same time? I am really, really sceptical about that. Are we guarding our kids when they play with their friends, who can expose them to all kind of nasty content/ideas/materials/behaviours? Are we censoring ads that are everywhere and are filled with sexual/erotic conotations? Are…

Proper advice/education is really the only solution. We all know how ridiculous any attempts to censor the internet is to people with even a minimal amount of tech savvy, especially if gov.uk are involved... I mean, take the UK's attempt to block e.g thepiratebay.org which is defeated by simply putting https:// infront of it (at least, currently, on virgin media).. The actual issue here though is the progression that…

The problem you're describing is exactly what we need to solve, instead of introducing another censorship/citizen tracking measure. Kids should be learning about their own sexuality, about these urges, how to handle them, how to not handle them. The main reason they're reaching out to that is the obvious, unescapable growth phase AND complete lack of support from parents, teachers and society in general. On one hand we're making sex and sexuality the ultimate taboo, pushing kids into handling these issues completely alone, on the other we're pouring sexuality into everything around us, including car tires sales. And then we try to censor/track all citizens in name of 'think of the children', what's a completely and utterly broken and least effective solution to the symptoms, not the disease.

Re: UK Government proposes porn-viewing ID

#36

Post by tachion »

adrianN wrote: post #31
cyberpunk wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proper advice/education is really the only solution. We all know how ridiculous any attempts to censor the internet is to people with even a minimal amount of tech savvy, especially if gov.uk are involved... I mean, take the UK's attempt to block e.g thepiratebay.org which is defeated by simply putting https:// infront of it (at least, currently, on virgin media).. The actual issue here though is the progression that…

I hear that the censors in China are pretty successful. It's certainly technically possible.

So now the Chinese government way of handling society sets the bar we're trying match to? ;)

Re: UK Government proposes porn-viewing ID

#37

Post by Accacin »

viraptor wrote: post #13
mobiuscog wrote: post #2

Something has to be done. It's not just about porn or violence of NSFL etc... but there is a serious problem on the internet, that is always lambasted with the "Won't somebody think of the children" memes. When society has reached a point that anybody with internet access can, simply by 'accidentally' going to the wrong website, be exposed to imagery that really is not going to help them be well-adjusted in life, wit…

> simply by 'accidentally' going to the wrong website, be exposed to imagery Is that a real problem though? You did quote the accidentally after all. Both kids and adults have access to things they seek - whether that's going to be internet, magazine brought to school, or some other means. If they don't seek such content, they won't see much more than what's already available to everyone in the daily mail. I think th…

> (Once it's tracked and officially acted on, it's going to be a sex offender case like sexting became, right?)

I'm not 100%, but I think recent guidelines in the UK advised that is an underage person is caught "sexting" with another underage person of the same age, they'll be no criminal repurcusions.

Re: UK Government proposes porn-viewing ID

#38

Post by jamesrcole »

mobiuscog wrote: post #2

Something has to be done. It's not just about porn or violence of NSFL etc... but there is a serious problem on the internet, that is always lambasted with the "Won't somebody think of the children" memes. When society has reached a point that anybody with internet access can, simply by 'accidentally' going to the wrong website, be exposed to imagery that really is not going to help them be well-adjusted in life, wit…

> When society has reached a point that anybody with internet access can, simply by 'accidentally' going to the wrong website, be exposed to imagery that really is not going to help them be well-adjusted in life, without any safeguards in place, there is something wrong.

"is not going to help them be well-adjusted in life" is an extraordinarily weak argument for harmfulness.

Eating ice-cream is also not going to help someone be well-adjusted in life.

Re: UK Government proposes porn-viewing ID

#39

Post by appleflaxen »

mobiuscog wrote: post #2

Something has to be done. It's not just about porn or violence of NSFL etc... but there is a serious problem on the internet, that is always lambasted with the "Won't somebody think of the children" memes. When society has reached a point that anybody with internet access can, simply by 'accidentally' going to the wrong website, be exposed to imagery that really is not going to help them be well-adjusted in life, wit…

> When society has reached a point that anybody with internet access can ... be exposed to imagery that really is not going to help them be well-adjusted in life ... there is something wrong

I am really trying to understand your point of view, and am failing.

Are you saying that you go online, and are bombarded by images that you don't want to see? Then why do you still go online? Have you taken a community college class about internet access, and how to find information you want (and by extension: avoid information you don't?)

You can voluntarily install any number of parent-protection extensions for your browser. Why do you want to control other people's speech rather than doing something simple to block content from your own browser that you don't want?

Re: UK Government proposes porn-viewing ID

#40

Post by viraptor »

mobiuscog wrote: post #34
viraptor wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> simply by 'accidentally' going to the wrong website, be exposed to imagery Is that a real problem though? You did quote the accidentally after all. Both kids and adults have access to things they seek - whether that's going to be internet, magazine brought to school, or some other means. If they don't seek such content, they won't see much more than what's already available to everyone in the daily mail. I think th…

It's certainly easy to stumble across unsavoury content - I have done so accidentally in the past and was amazed how easy it was. I can't say how much of a problem it is, but then I suspect nobody can. As a parent (and yes, as stated already, I do limit internet access) I know that most parents definitely wouldn't want these things to be viewed early in life - I have no problem with adults viewing whatever they want,…

If you want to filter traffic at home, I don't think it's that hard. There's a whole industry trying to solve that problem. Google "internet family filter" and choose one. Your ISP probably provides one as well (my last 3 ISPs did) I'll likely use one as well when I have kids. But I'm absolutely against any government program to enforce the same.

But my experience is much different. Apart from sexualised models advertising things, I've not run into anything (by accident) I wouldn't share at a family table.

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