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Introducing Rust Language Server

internals.rust-lang.org

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Re: Introducing Rust Language Server

#61

Post by retep998 »

wbond wrote: post #44
steveklabnik wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah! What things are you looking for in its maturity? In some ways, it's actually the most mature backend; stack probes work with it, for example. Windows isn't my personal area of expertise though.

I've been following https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/1061 for a while. It seems that high-level pieces are there, but that certain elements useful in day-to-day software engineering still need some more time.

Yay, someone actually follows that issue.

If you have the time, you should really consider helping to improve the Rust experience on Windows. There's a huge shortage of Windows developers in the Rust community.

Re: Introducing Rust Language Server

#62

Post by retep998 »

Rusky wrote: post #53
steveklabnik wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah! What things are you looking for in its maturity? In some ways, it's actually the most mature backend; stack probes work with it, for example. Windows isn't my personal area of expertise though.

Probably the biggest drawback of the MSVC backend is that its debugging symbols only have line numbers, no variable/type information. The rest is mostly Windows-specific issues like manifests and subsystems.

Actually, the PDB debug info has variable and type information and a lot of it actually works. There's just a few minor issues here and there with stuff like fat pointers.

Re: Introducing Rust Language Server

#63

Post by steveklabnik »

retep998 wrote: post #61
wbond wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been following https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/1061 for a while. It seems that high-level pieces are there, but that certain elements useful in day-to-day software engineering still need some more time.

Yay, someone actually follows that issue. If you have the time, you should really consider helping to improve the Rust experience on Windows. There's a huge shortage of Windows developers in the Rust community.

Seconded, and you have done so much work on this front. It'd be wonderful if we had more people to advocate for and help do this work.

Re: Introducing Rust Language Server

#64

Post by [deleted] »

retep998 wrote: post #61
wbond wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been following https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/1061 for a while. It seems that high-level pieces are there, but that certain elements useful in day-to-day software engineering still need some more time.

Yay, someone actually follows that issue. If you have the time, you should really consider helping to improve the Rust experience on Windows. There's a huge shortage of Windows developers in the Rust community.

[deleted]

Re: Introducing Rust Language Server

#65

Post by szemet »

theossuary wrote: post #8
JoshTriplett wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a side effect of making a welcoming community a priority. The Rust Language Server grew out of feedback from the Rust Language Survey, in which many people responded that they wanted good IDE support. That isn't a glamorous task to work on, especially if you're already comfortable with the level of editor support you have, but it helps bring more people into the community, which has a multiplicative ef…

I think it's a side effect of having a punishing language. Coding Rust is always described as fighting with the compiler, I don't think Rust would have ever taken off if there weren't great tools to fight the compiler with. I think that's a part of it, anyway.

I agree. At least for me it was a common pattern that by fixing a bug I've introduced another (sometimes suprising one), and by fixing that I've introduced another and so on. I would have given it up without strong editor support giving hints on the fly.

(I don't remember similar experiences learning other languages even with strong static checks (e.g. haskell). Either my errors were 1 level deep there, or the propagation of errors (like changing a type somewhere) was easier to follow/predict to me)

Re: Introducing Rust Language Server

#66

Post by Rusky »

retep998 wrote: post #62
Rusky wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the biggest drawback of the MSVC backend is that its debugging symbols only have line numbers, no variable/type information. The rest is mostly Windows-specific issues like manifests and subsystems.

Actually, the PDB debug info has variable and type information and a lot of it actually works. There's just a few minor issues here and there with stuff like fat pointers.

Oh, that's fantastic- how recent is this? Last time I tried debugging an -msvc binary was only a couple months ago.

Re: Introducing Rust Language Server

#67

Post by pjmlp »

steveklabnik wrote: post #26
favorited wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I totally missed that. That's pretty great – I thought it was a neat idea from MS, but I was worried it would get any traction. Glad to have been wrong!

A lot of us in Rust-land are very big fans of VS: Code and what they're doing. I'm in the process of switching to it as my primary editor.

The work the community has been doing there is great.

The Rust development experience in VS: Code is the only reason why I use it.

Kudos to everyone.

Re: Introducing Rust Language Server

#68

Post by pjmlp »

steveklabnik wrote: post #20
xuejie wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be wrong but one possible explanation is that the language is so hard to learn that people would need tools to help in the beginning. Within Mozilla, they can use servo as a selling point or turn to creators for help, but from the outside world, we've got so many languages available, while some might not be good when the software grow big, they are more beginner-friendly than Rust. Hence Rust needs all those…

We've actually heard from production users over the last year or two that the compiler itself helps you learn the language; it's been compared to a pair at times. And that was long before new errors... That said, there are more tools to be built to make it even better. https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/borrow-visualizer-for-the-... is one extension I'm very interested in seeing.

The borrow visualizer idea is great!

It would help a lot in regards to language productivity.

Re: Introducing Rust Language Server

#69

Post by xorxornop »

steveklabnik wrote: post #50
wst_ wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can develop Rust with IntelliJ as well. There's a plugin out there.

They gave it a snazzy site: https://intellij-rust.github.io/ One really interesting thing about this effort is that the IntelliJ folks have their own stuff for autocomplete; they're not using racer.

Yeah, that seems nearly a constant for them. For example, in ReSharper (and presumably Project Rider), despite C# having the excellent, very fast (and, critically, fully open source!) compiler-as-a-service, Roslyn, they continue to use their own internal compiler service for code autocompletion, refactoring, and correctness analysis.

Re: Introducing Rust Language Server

#70

Post by rubber_duck »

hetman wrote: post #3

I think the most astonishing thing to me about the Rust language project is not the language it self (sure it's innovative but there's also still a lot of work to be done to make it get out of your way). It's the speed and tenacity with which the project has managed to push development of the supporting tooling. The development tools surrounding a language can often be more important for productivity than the languag…

>It's the speed and tenacity with which the project has managed to push development of the supporting tooling.

Compared to what ? Community designed languages like D, Nim, w/e - no dispute here. But corporately backed languages such as C#, F#, Swift, TypeScript, Kotlin - not really. I guess it's fair since Rust is middle ground - sponsored by Mozilla but not getting the level of investment as the others mentioned.

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