Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Donald-lets-silence-my-critics-Trump As opposed to Hillary-lets-coopt-the-media-and-bribe-my-potential-critics-Clinton? I hate Donald Trump, but dismissing evidence because of the source is clearly misguided.
I didn't say anything about dismissing evidence. I simply said I've lost respect for Julian Assanage. The entire point of wikileaks is to inform the public without any filter because we are smart enough to judge things for ourselves. But now clearly Assanage is acting as a filter with the explicit goal of stopping a Clinton presidency. His support of Trump doesn't even promote the goals of his organization vis-a-vis…
On the wikileak-ed emails from Tanden on Lessig
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Re: On the wikileak-ed emails from Tanden on Lessig
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But recently its clear his actions aren't some noble crusade to speak truth to power and promote freedom of speech and otherwise promote civil liberties. How could WikiLeaks be interpreted as anything other than promoting civil liberties? Its sole purpose is to expose the corrupt behind-the-curtain dealings of leaders and political elite---to give power to the people and remove it from the corrupt. > Why can't othe…
What possible corruption is revealed by the quoted email?
Re: On the wikileak-ed emails from Tanden on Lessig
#33Who would expect such a classy response to a threat of violence against a "smug" and "pompous" professor. Or maybe Tanden is wrong and it is actually she who needs an adjusting.
I agree that the email is mean-spirited and unpleasant, but "I'd like to kick the shit out of him on twitter " is clearly not an actual threat of violence.
Re: On the wikileak-ed emails from Tanden on Lessig
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I am certain there are some troubling revelations in there, I fail to see how Neera Tanden shit-talking about Lawrence Lessig is in any way relevant to the public interest. It's simply an unethical violation of privacy. Had he filtered it to just the important stuff and released it right away, journalists and the public could be having real conversations about said material right now instead. Of course, being f…
I'll go ahead and defend wikileaks on this count (despite my statements about Julian in the parent comment). The entire point of wikileaks is that they publish information as is under the belief that the public is smart enough to reach their own conclusions without editorializing. This means publishing everything they got with its full mundane nature on display (if for no other reason than as proof that they are not…
How many of us would want to have everything we've ever said or done in private aired out in public, under the guise that "the public is smart enough to not editorialize anything"?
I'm quite certain that would have disastrous consequences on my life, as well as just about anyone else's. How about yours?
That said, when it comes to something affecting the public interest (eg government corruption), then yes, I am all for airing such matters. Transparent government is good. Transparent "what kind of porn does Joe Public watch at home?" is not.
Re: On the wikileak-ed emails from Tanden on Lessig
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please just stop. Have we really become so blindly partisan as a nation that we complain about uneven distribution of evidence of corruption rather than the corruption itself? Ponder that for a moment, please.
While I am certain there are some troubling revelations in there, I fail to see how Neera Tanden shit-talking about Lawrence Lessig is in any way relevant to the public interest. It's simply an unethical violation of privacy. Had he filtered it to just the important stuff and released it right away, journalists and the public could be having real conversations about said material right now instead. Of course, being f…
Could this have been done better? Perhaps. We don't know the details of when Assange got this information, what opportunities he might have had to filter it through MSM outlets with the resources to handle it and release it before voting (which has already begun).
The fact is, quite a lot in there is in the public interest to know, and especially for someone like Tanden I have little sympathy for her shit-talking being made public, after she's attacked others for less.
Re: On the wikileak-ed emails from Tanden on Lessig
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please just stop. Have we really become so blindly partisan as a nation that we complain about uneven distribution of evidence of corruption rather than the corruption itself? Ponder that for a moment, please.
> Please just stop. That reminded me of John Stewart on Crossfire.. you're as correct now as he was then. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0410/15/cf.01.html STEWART: No, no, no, please. CARLSON: No, no, hold on. We've got commercials. (CROSSTALK) STEWART: Please. Please stop. CARLSON: Next, Jon Stewart in the "Rapid Fire." STEWART: Please stop.
Thanks for the link!
Re: On the wikileak-ed emails from Tanden on Lessig
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'll go ahead and defend wikileaks on this count (despite my statements about Julian in the parent comment). The entire point of wikileaks is that they publish information as is under the belief that the public is smart enough to reach their own conclusions without editorializing. This means publishing everything they got with its full mundane nature on display (if for no other reason than as proof that they are not…
I understand that, I just don't agree with it. How many of us would want to have everything we've ever said or done in private aired out in public, under the guise that "the public is smart enough to not editorialize anything"? I'm quite certain that would have disastrous consequences on my life, as well as just about anyone else's. How about yours? That said, when it comes to something affecting the public interest…
Re: On the wikileak-ed emails from Tanden on Lessig
#38I used to respect what Assanage is doing. But recently its clear his actions aren't some noble crusade to speak truth to power and promote freedom of speech and otherwise promote civil liberties. If that were the point then he would leak whatever he has whenever he gets it instead of trying to time it to affect the election. If he really believed in the causes he claims to believe in then he wouldn't be trying to get…
It is clear that their sources use Wikileaks to influence politics. Wikileaks could perhaps withold the information until after the elections - but then they would be accused by the other side.
Re: On the wikileak-ed emails from Tanden on Lessig
#39While Lessig is gracious here, I don't have to be. Tanden and Podesta are representative of what will become the Clinton white house. This sort of rhetoric indicates where they, and Clinton, stand on a variety of interconnected issues, from money in politics to lobbying and outright corruption. Lessig has done more than almost anyone to champion the idea of separating money from politics. To many, he is a hero. To Ta…
You don't have to be, but it might have been a good idea to do so given there's always the chance one is missing a bit of history, like you (and some of the other comments in this thread) are demonstrating here. The post-hoc heroification of Lessig is somewhat sickening on a technical forum given how badly he blew it Eldred vs. Ashcroft with exactly the sort of Mr. Smug Constitutionalist Professor attitude that the Podesta email called out. The result of that case was a huge blow, maybe the only best chance there was to at least prevent flagrant, retroactive infinite extensions of copyright, to help in some way protect Public Domain, and despite direct hints from the justices he just refused to engage in practical core economic arguments in favor of academic scholarship. This was obvious to everyone with a smidgen of legal knowledge following along at the time, and for that it was obvious to him too in retrospect. Read his own analysis from Legal Affairs, "How I Lost the Big One" [1]. His summary sentence says it all really: "When Eric Eldred's crusade to save the public domain reached the Supreme Court, it needed the help of a lawyer, not a scholar."
It's directly apropos here because yeah, Lessig is a good writer. And he can definitely do the whole humble/gracious thing alright. But that's cold god damned comfort to the hundreds of millions who lost out due to his total fuck up. I have not forgotten nor forgiven it. I'm glad he's gone on to try to do other good things, and people like him have a valuable role in debate. But the real world of politics and power is not a classroom debate, and people like him do not belong anywhere near a position of importance that requires direct interaction, understanding, and manipulation of the filthy realities upon which good must build.
The email might have been "rude" (and I use scare quotes because I don't consider privately using strong language in a bit of venting that you have the self-control not to make public rude), but it was also strongly rooted in fact. His presidential campaign was flat out disgusting, built on an utter lie (I cannot believe Lessig of all people doesn't understand the separation of powers) and flagrant irresponsibility over the lives of billions of people, because that responsibility is part of what it means to be President of the United States of America. He said he was running for real back then, he raised money, and I think anyone who does that should be serious about going all the way in case their super long shot somehow manages to catch a wave of cultural zeitgeist and work against all odds. I would have been delighted if he or anyone else had made a true comprehensive technology cored platform and ran with it, treating the entire thing with the seriousness and practicality it deserves, but he did not.
I will always admire many of his ideas and how he's helped a generation of minds think in new ways. But when it comes to politics his approach can get stuffed, and he clearly did not learn from one of the great blunder in technological law precedent of the last few decades.
1. http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/March-April-2004/story_le...