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Google Flights will now tell you when fares will increase

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Re: Google Flights will now tell you when fares will increase

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30M LoC sounds insane - what is the main reason behind there being so much code?

It requires a lot of code because the rules that govern the use of fares on a ticket are insanely complicated -- literally beyond anything you could possibly imagine a priori. There are dozens of rule "categories", each larded up with tons of complexity. There's even "Rule Category 25: Fare By Rule" which is essentially a complete macro facility for fares, allowing carriers to literally take an arbitrary fare's rules…

Does all that complexity limit the amount of price competition airlines engage in?

Re: Google Flights will now tell you when fares will increase

#142
post #23

I'm curious, how does one gain access to flight schedules/fares? Is this something that anyone can get their hands on and create a service (complexity aside), or do you need some sort of license that costs thousands of dollars? Does each airline have their own way of exporting this data? Is there a single entity that aggregates from all of them? How does the actual data look like? (Is it a dump every X hours, or some…

In Google's case it comes from an acquisition [1]. Not all airlines share data. For example, you won't find Southwest fares except on their own website. [1] http://www.itasoftware.com/about/

Southwest has it's own system, but does share their data through Sabre.. Fun Fact.. upto 2005 they still sent us the data hand delivered on a 9 track tape!

Re: Google Flights will now tell you when fares will increase

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fares and rules come from ATPCO ( http://atpco.net ). Flights come from OAG ( http://www.oag.com ). Seat availability requires data directly from the carrier, usually via a live query to the carrier's reservation system. The GDS companies get this data from these sources and then in turn provide (crappy) APIs for customers to use to query it. In general, if you're doing bookings you can get small amounts of the data…

Do you know how expert flyer works under the hood? Always been curious about their credit model. Are they charging per query since they're paying per query to the GDS companies?

Hi Brett, we charge a monthly or a yearly subscription fee that at the Premium level includes unlimited searching. Details here: http://www.expertflyer.com/frequent-flyer-programs Email us if you want to discuss more at customercare@

Re: Google Flights will now tell you when fares will increase

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for building ITA Matrix - it is amazing tool and I don't know what I would do without it.

> Thank you for building ITA Matrix - it is amazing tool and I don't know what I would do without it. Honest question (I swear I'm not trying to troll): what do you actually do with it that you can't do (or do as well as) with Google Flights or Kayak or some other site like that? I ask because I've used ITA Matrix and never managed to find a cheaper flight than I can through "normal" means... but I rarely fly multi-d…

Last time I tried I found the fact I was able to select multiple departure airports and multiple destinations and see a calendar of fares a great way to find the cheapest fares.

Re: Google Flights will now tell you when fares will increase

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for building ITA Matrix - it is amazing tool and I don't know what I would do without it.

> Thank you for building ITA Matrix - it is amazing tool and I don't know what I would do without it. Honest question (I swear I'm not trying to troll): what do you actually do with it that you can't do (or do as well as) with Google Flights or Kayak or some other site like that? I ask because I've used ITA Matrix and never managed to find a cheaper flight than I can through "normal" means... but I rarely fly multi-d…

Using ITA Matrix is pretty easy. Using ITA Matrix to actually find better deals takes a lot of knowledge about how the airline systems work.

If you're only looking at flights out of a particular airport and with a specific (default) routing, you'll probably not find anything better.

If you know that certain airports are hubs, or that a particular carrier has a slightly longer route that takes you via a certain city and maybe have a longer layover then you might be able to find some really good deals.

Being in Australia, I really don't get to take advantage of these things at all.

Re: Google Flights will now tell you when fares will increase

#146
post #4

Bing Travel had predictions for fare fluctuations for air tickets back in 2009. It was pretty awesome back when I flied a lot, but they apparently killed the feature in 2014. Now Google's bringing it back, two years later. I don't understand the future sometimes. ¯\(°_o)/¯

Yeah, loved the farecast feature of Bing.

The farecast team left and formed Decide, a way predict prices for electronics and other goods. Eventually purchased by ebay.

Bing also had a fantastic thing that let you earn points when shopping through Bing Shopping. That was quickly discontinued as well.

Re: Google Flights will now tell you when fares will increase

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30M LoC sounds insane - what is the main reason behind there being so much code?

It requires a lot of code because the rules that govern the use of fares on a ticket are insanely complicated -- literally beyond anything you could possibly imagine a priori. There are dozens of rule "categories", each larded up with tons of complexity. There's even "Rule Category 25: Fare By Rule" which is essentially a complete macro facility for fares, allowing carriers to literally take an arbitrary fare's rules…

Just some random question. Can you give some insight on how "Greenspuns Tenth Rule Of Programming" apply in this 30million LoC? thanks in advance

Re: Google Flights will now tell you when fares will increase

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for building ITA Matrix - it is amazing tool and I don't know what I would do without it.

> Thank you for building ITA Matrix - it is amazing tool and I don't know what I would do without it. Honest question (I swear I'm not trying to troll): what do you actually do with it that you can't do (or do as well as) with Google Flights or Kayak or some other site like that? I ask because I've used ITA Matrix and never managed to find a cheaper flight than I can through "normal" means... but I rarely fly multi-d…

- Time bars (incredibly handy for optimising for things like tight connections, which can be essential when flying international and missing a connection means being stranded for a day): https://i.imgur.com/RteViUF.png

- Multiple departure/destination airports (you can search SFO,SJC,OAK to LGB,LAX,SNA and back in a single search). To be fair Google supports this on desktop too (but doesn't on mobile).

- Better search for return flights with variable stay lengths (Google only does a 5x5 matrix, ITA Matrix does a full month).

However, perhaps the biggest downside is that you can't actually book through ITA Matrix. It only finds the fare, you have to find it elsewhere to actually buy it (although Hipmunk takes routing codes, which makes it easier)

Re: Google Flights will now tell you when fares will increase

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for building ITA Matrix - it is amazing tool and I don't know what I would do without it.

> Thank you for building ITA Matrix - it is amazing tool and I don't know what I would do without it. Honest question (I swear I'm not trying to troll): what do you actually do with it that you can't do (or do as well as) with Google Flights or Kayak or some other site like that? I ask because I've used ITA Matrix and never managed to find a cheaper flight than I can through "normal" means... but I rarely fly multi-d…

One of the features I like to use a lot is the ability to specify fair classes. As an example, say I want to fly to Tokyo, and I am an Alaska Airlines mileage plan member. Alaska Airlines does not fly to Tokyo, but it has deals with airlines that do. However, sometimes the fare classes are quite complicated. For instance, "Economy" is broken down into many buckets, and not all are created equal. For instance, Delta has at least 13 buckets for Economy, and they each 'fare class' award different amounts of mileage to Alaska flyers [1]:

E: 25% Mileage

L, U, T, X, V: 50% Mileage

H, Q, K: 75%

B, M, S: 100% Mileage

Y: 125% Mileage

If you search on Google Flights, these will all be called "Economy". If you search on most of the other OTA's, you can sometimes find the fare class during checkout or even as part of your search results, but you can't filter on it (Hipmunk is one that does support some of ITA's syntax for these filters, but not all). The buckets aren't always strictly more/less expensive, but they're usually not exposed very easily, if at all[2]. So, you're often left crawling from listing to listing, expanding to see if they are going to get you any miles. (I'll save the debate of whether miles are worth all the effort for another day.)

On ITA, it's not unreasonable to construct a query that says "During the month of November, show me round trips that are between 12 and 19 days that are going from Denver to either Narita or Haneda Airports, which will earn me more than 50% miles on either Delta or American or JAL, but also only ones that connect in Portland or Los Angeles, with no prop planes or overnight stops, and no [1] https://www.alaskaair.com/content/mileage-plan/how-to-earn-m...

[2] Delta, to its credit, does allow you to search by minimum fair class on its advanced search)

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