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Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

bloomberg.com

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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#241

Post by ccallebs »

wmccullough wrote: post #118
webaholic wrote: post #3

How happy are they working that extra 25%? They are richer, sure. But I don't think being rich is an indicator of your overall state. Looking at [1], you can see that people in european countries come out on top of the happiness index. One could argue that working less is actually better for productivity and overall happiness. [1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-23/these-are-...

I'm about to turn 31, and I make a decent salary as a Senior Software Engineer. I'm deeply considering going to live on a few acres and go full subsistence to avoid this rat race. Software isn't fun anymore, our generation probably won't retire. The worst part is that crippling medical bills and college loan repayment are destroying us financially. I think I'd be happier surviving what I can do myself than to keep do…

Do both. Remote work is a thing and it's what my wife and I are currently doing. We have 9 acres and have many agricultural plans on the horizon.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#242

Post by salmon30salmon »

ObeyTheGuts wrote: post #228
salmon30salmon wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a great variation in the United States. A country of 300 million people, where each state has a unique culture and identity. For some reason, "American" is often generalized to be a caricature that I, having lived in the Pacific Northwest my entire life, have never encountered.

wow, are u saying states in usa have same level culture difference like european countries? just in spain alone we have 4 different OFFICIAL languages

If I walk into a government building in my state, I will pick up a pamphlet which has notices in English, Spanish, Russian, Vietnamese and Arabic. I can walk down a street and hear each of those languages being spoken. Are you really going to tell me that the Vietnamese experience in the United States is basically the same as the English experience?

If so, please come visit on of the top 30 cities in the United States and spend a few days walking around different districts and interacting with different people. Don't believe what our exported media is telling you, we are far from a monoculture.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#243

Post by stannol »

refurb wrote: post #162
RandomName2020 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's harder to move from a class to another compared to the US. Not true: social mobility in US is lower than in Europe and Canada.

That might be true in the aggregate, but I imagine it's not for specific groups. Why else would so many people move to the US for job opportunities?

The number of immigrants per capita in the US is not especially high. It's lower than in Switzerland, Australia, Canada, Ireland, Germany and similar to most Western European nations.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#245

Post by misiti3780 »

untog wrote: post #9

I've worked in both Europe and the US, and in my opinion, US workers are far worse off for it. You earn more money in the US, you can advance faster, but you have next-to-no vacation time (and even when you do, you're still often expected to be reachable by e-mail), maternity/paternity leave is pitiful, and you have to pay large health insurance premiums, amongst other things. I know that isn't the case for everyone,…

Sorry for this small rant ....

I dont understand why everyone is so caught up with answering emails on vacation. Yes - it's not ideal, but as long as your not expected to be on your phone all day, and in my experience, you are not unless you own your own business, are a doctor, etc. then what is the big deal? 5/10 minutes of email's in the morning means Europeans have a better work/life balance ?

If you work for a small company they might need you to be available because you are an integral part of the operation. Id be surprised you are expected to answer emails on vacation if you currently work large company in the US where you are 1 of N team members where N > 50.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#246

Post by joncrocks »

matt4077 wrote: post #144
ajmurmann wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that actually apply to every field? I've only worked briefly as a software developer in Germany and not full time, but I never got the impression that unions would realistically stop anyone in that field from working till midnight. If you are working as a factory worker for example that's of course a totally different story. However, I doubt that people in that kind of job regularly decide to put in a few extra…

If you're in management (defined as having authority to hire/fire IIRC) you're exempt from the law, same if you're self-employed. For a regular programming job, I believe the the law applies (no more than 10h/day and (8h/weekday average over 6 months). Practically, it only matters if somebody cares about it which only happens systematically on larger companies with a union presence. But: you're responsible for your e…

In the UK you can opt-out of the EU working time directive.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#247

Post by coriny »

endisukaj wrote: post #217
RandomName2020 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's harder to move from a class to another compared to the US. Not true: social mobility in US is lower than in Europe and Canada.

> Not true: social mobility in US is lower than in Europe and Canada. I can't speak about Canada but I seriously doubt that social mobility is higher in Europe. Again, you can't generalize. It may be far easier to move from a class to another in Germany than for example Italy or France.

It's a difficult thing to compare, so I wouldn't totally believe the absolute comparisons, but generally most countries in Europe are considered to have higher social mobility than the US. The exceptions are Italy & the UK, with maybe France level pegging with the US.

e.g. https://www.oecd.org/eco/growth/NERO-22-June-2015-income-ine...

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#248

Post by vidarh »

walshemj wrote: post #161
vidarh wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of senior dev jobs in London that pay far more than that. I passed that level in London 15 years ago. At that time I had about 6 years experience. It depends much more on niche, how well your market yourself, and what type of companies you work for.

Perm or contractor?

Perm. Contractor rates need to be much higher to be anything worth talking about.

EDIT: Basically, never accept the first offer. Brits rarely negotiate, but I negotiated up my last salary 50% over the initial offer, after going in specifically knowing the top end of the stated salary band was lower than what I'd consider. If you take the initial offer, you're being paid less than your employer was willing to pay. I've never had an offer pulled, in London or elsewhere, over trying to negotiate it. I've declined positions where I didn't get it quite high enough, though.

If you take the initial offer, then you'll be very lucky to get a good deal.

And aim for niches. E.g. PHP devs are dime a dozen. Talk to a recruiter and flat out ask them what skills they get most demand for and highest salaries for now. Just be honest and tell them you're considering what to skill up in. I do backend/devops stuff with AWS and other cloud services etc, and that'd doing ok, but there are other opportunities. And network as much as you can. You'll get your salary up a lot if you're coming in via a suitable recommendation rather than the normal hiring channels.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#249

Post by coriny »

digikata wrote: post #222
RandomName2020 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Because US is big. 2. Because it is more welcoming for immigrants. 3. Because of broken H1B system.

Because it had great (and I mean multi-generational enduring American Dream great) PR from after WWII thru at least the late 60's.

The post-WW2 soft power strategy by the US was awesome and extremely effective. Sadly, it seems that by the 70s the pentagon had become solely obsessed with the projection of hard power. I personally reckon this has a huge amount to do with the decline of the US's popularity around the globe in the subsequent decades.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#250

Post by knz »

drakonandor wrote: post #136
knz wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and you have to pay large health insurance premiums This part still bothers me after 10 years in the US. Health insurance might as well be a tax if you have a family or any ongoing health issues. Hearing people say "I don't support universal health care because my taxes would go up" drives me insane. If the proposition was higher taxes but less overall money spent on healthcare then it's a net gain for you. Of cour…

> If the proposition was higher taxes but less overall money spent on healthcare then it's a net gain for you. Sure it would cost less, but then I'd be on the same insurance as everyone else. That means worse quality of care for those of us who currently have something other than Medicare.

There are OECD countries that have varying degrees of public healthcare supplemented with private insurance that have excellent quality of care.

I'm not sure the US model for primary care is that great either - there have been many articles about how medical clinics are now pushing people through in 10-15 minutes instead of taking the time to fully understand the patient's needs and avoid over prescription. A routine visit for my kid at the local clinic (Allina Health) is now $150 - $190 (for a 15 minute appointment to check for something basic that a PA at Minute Clinic wouldn't touch). That same visit back in my home country cost $43 USD (non resident rates).

I'm not sure there would be a significant drop in primary care for most people?

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