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Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

bloomberg.com

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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#231

Post by abysmallyideal »

tyfon wrote: post #92
ythl wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because European governments take a lot more out of your salary before it reaches you in exchange for social services (pensions, healthcare, etc). Unlike America where you are expected to either drop a stack of bills just to see the doctor or die in the streets.

So let's compare tax rates in the US vs Norway where I live, arguably a "socialist bastion" according to the rest of the world! Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates Corporate tax Norway: 25% Corporate tax US: 35% Individual (Min/Max) Norway: 0%/46.9% Individual (Min/Max) US: 0%-3%/52.9% Payroll tax Norway: 0%-14.1% Payroll tax US: 20.2% VAT Norway: 10%-25% VAT US: 0%-11.725% The tax sy…

There aren't many non-european Americans willing to live in Scandinavia or europe over the US barring extraordinary circumstances. A significant amount of foreign, non 'white', skill prefers the US over say Norway. Considering that, "socialism" in the context of Scandinavia,europe, etc isn't an attractive option by a long shot in a more global, and highly diverse 'market'. The benefits of a selective style of socialism like Norway may be attractive to say similar mindsets and cultural effects comfortable with a homogenous idealism of utopia, but having the benefits of a highly diverse and varying mindsets and cultures has its own positive effects even with the negatives.

Sadly in the US, the idealisms of socialism often also comes with certain european-centric identities, or commonly bastardized into race ideologies where their proponents emphasize a socialist "utopia" like Scandinavia. These people emphasize this socialism on the basis of certain similar attributes where they can afford such promises to a small percentage, through the removal or exclusion of those they decide are not like them.

Breaking down the US economic system, one would be quick to notice that there does indeed exist a kind of socialist utopia much inline with euro-centric ideologies. One that even dwarfs the so called socialist bastion of Scandinavia and europe.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#232

Post by yodsanklai »

jypepin wrote: post #96
ajmurmann wrote: post #32

I find it astonishing how positive Bloomberg tries to spin this: People earn a wider range of incomes in the U.S., so “workers have an incentive to try harder to move up the job ladder because a promotion is worth more,” said Dora Gicheva -The income range in the US is so large that there are lots of people at the bottom end who have to work multiple jobs. How much does that have to do with the longer work hours, Blo…

It's a very light analysis from me, so might not be fully true, but I live in the US, now in Europe, and in Canada before that. You could also say Canada is kind of in the middle. Well, maybe correlation doesn't imply causation in that case but here is what I can see: - US > Canada > Europe in terms of opportunities, be it starting salary, end-of-career salaries, and everything in the middle such as promotions, perso…

> When you call cust sup in Europe, the service is way worst.

I remember a sign at a Mac Donald's in New York that said something like "if the waiter doesn't smile, you get a free burger". In Europe you may not get the forced smile, but it doesn't mean the service is worse. Overall, I'd say the service is slightly better in the US, but you can see it's totally fake and I find it a little bit disturbing.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#233

Post by matt4077 »

donretag wrote: post #74

I would love to live and work in Italy (or any other Mediterranean climate country), but there are simply no [tech] jobs. And what few software jobs there are are not interesting at all and pay very little. I value my time and I am willing to take a pay cut to live in Europe, but the jobs are not simply there. Why can there be no middle ground? For now, the plan is to work hard and retire early. Real estate price cha…

Software is uniquely suited for remote work. I run a small but acceptably successful startup with one other partner and it really doesn't matter where I am as long as I have a power outlet and internet. (and an hour of internet access is enough if necessary).

So I've started spending about a third of my time abroad (more in the winter, less in the summer). Usually it's a week in some southern-european or mediterranean country, from Portugal to Egypt or Israel. Flights are about 60-200 Euros return, accommodation is around 25 Euro/day, and a changing scenery is actually pretty good for creativity.

I could spend more time away, but social life makes being at home too attractive. I wish there were a few more people and we could start the compiler-wielding traveling circus :)

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#234

Post by aj0strow »

future1979 wrote: post #170
deanCommie wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agreed having lived and worked in all 3. Canada is the sweet spot.

I'm in the process of moving to Toronto from the US. Any tips on good tech companies to work for. :)

Take a look at: Shopify, Wattpad, Pager Duty, Uken Games, Opencare, Quandl, The Score (ESPN), Wealthsimple, Top Hat, Event Mobi.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#235

Post by donretag »

sguav wrote: post #116
donretag wrote: post #74

I would love to live and work in Italy (or any other Mediterranean climate country), but there are simply no [tech] jobs. And what few software jobs there are are not interesting at all and pay very little. I value my time and I am willing to take a pay cut to live in Europe, but the jobs are not simply there. Why can there be no middle ground? For now, the plan is to work hard and retire early. Real estate price cha…

FPGA designer (and embedded sys FW) living in Italy here, must say that tech jobs are possibly some of the few jobs that you can be safe to find here! Now, if tech means webdev I have friends that struggle to pay the bills by freelancing with that, but going down the stack you find much more demand (I have personally found A LOT of demand for EE). Consider that I'm speaking from the northern part of Italy, no idea ab…

If I wanted to freelance, I can simply do that in the US and solve the work/life/vacation balance myself. I will be exploring freelancing in the near future. I might be too down the tech stack, since I will not find exactly what I have been specializing in.

Of all my friends that "majored" in Computer Science in high school (which is what you do in Italy, ITIS Informatica), none of them work in software. Most never have. I heard of one classmate that was working as a software developer. Granted, I graduated a long time ago (well before social media) and have not heard from any of them since graduation.

Croatia is another country I like due to the lower costs and good weather.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#236

Post by Aaargh20318 »

jypepin wrote: post #96
ajmurmann wrote: post #32

I find it astonishing how positive Bloomberg tries to spin this: People earn a wider range of incomes in the U.S., so “workers have an incentive to try harder to move up the job ladder because a promotion is worth more,” said Dora Gicheva -The income range in the US is so large that there are lots of people at the bottom end who have to work multiple jobs. How much does that have to do with the longer work hours, Blo…

It's a very light analysis from me, so might not be fully true, but I live in the US, now in Europe, and in Canada before that. You could also say Canada is kind of in the middle. Well, maybe correlation doesn't imply causation in that case but here is what I can see: - US > Canada > Europe in terms of opportunities, be it starting salary, end-of-career salaries, and everything in the middle such as promotions, perso…

> When you call cust sup in Europe, the service is way worst. People to try as hard to make the extra effort, etc.

When you call customer support in the US, you get someone in India who barely speaks English. If you call customer support in the Netherlands you get a Dutch person because no one outside the Netherlands speaks Dutch.

Also, due to better consumer protection laws the actual results are often way better too.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#237

Post by donretag »

piva00 wrote: post #89
donretag wrote: post #74

I would love to live and work in Italy (or any other Mediterranean climate country), but there are simply no [tech] jobs. And what few software jobs there are are not interesting at all and pay very little. I value my time and I am willing to take a pay cut to live in Europe, but the jobs are not simply there. Why can there be no middle ground? For now, the plan is to work hard and retire early. Real estate price cha…

You can definitely find tech jobs in Portugal and Spain, mostly in Lisbon and Barcelona. They will not pay the same as in Germany, the Netherlands, UK or here in Sweden but you can live very comfortably with a tech salary there, so there's middle ground. Italy unfortunately doesn't really have a well developed tech industry as far as I know.

Never been to Portugal, I should look into it. I have been looking to go somewhere for NYE.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#239

Post by matt4077 »

nathan_f77 wrote: post #149
donretag wrote: post #74

I would love to live and work in Italy (or any other Mediterranean climate country), but there are simply no [tech] jobs. And what few software jobs there are are not interesting at all and pay very little. I value my time and I am willing to take a pay cut to live in Europe, but the jobs are not simply there. Why can there be no middle ground? For now, the plan is to work hard and retire early. Real estate price cha…

This is true. I'm already working remotely as a freelancer, so I wish it was as easy as just moving to Italy. Unfortunately you can't do that if you're not employed by a company, or have a ton of money to invest. I just found this startup visa, though: http://italiastartupvisa.mise.gov.it/#direct-application-sec... I think I might actually look into this.

Assuming you're American, I believe you can get a Schengen visa for most of Europe from any number of countries, including Britain (if you hurry, and it may not be called Schengen since they aren't a member). So try shopping around – it's usually easy if you have ancestors from a country and every country has additional programs for certain purposes (being jewish, for example, gets you German citizenship with no further questions asked).

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#240

Post by sremani »

ObeyTheGuts wrote: post #228
salmon30salmon wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a great variation in the United States. A country of 300 million people, where each state has a unique culture and identity. For some reason, "American" is often generalized to be a caricature that I, having lived in the Pacific Northwest my entire life, have never encountered.

wow, are u saying states in usa have same level culture difference like european countries? just in spain alone we have 4 different OFFICIAL languages

No but there is enough regional difference, between East Coast, South, West Coast and Pacific North West. Even though most of the suburbs look alike thanks to mono-cultures and business franchises. The general regional vibe if you observe has some stark contrasts.

Again USA is 300 million people, from Rio Grande Valley to Seattle. Spain has 4 different official languages, but more languages are spoken in US than Spain.

edit: I am not even counting the contrast of Native American Reservations to Metropolis like NY, LA.

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