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Shame on Y Combinator

marco.org

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Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#491

Post by edanm »

arohner wrote: post #482
tptacek wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is in fact not a fundamental principle of democracy. There is no work of political philosophy anywhere that suggests we should be able to say whatever we'd like "without fear of repercussions". What is a principle of liberal philosophy, though, is that we should be tolerant of the beliefs of others (in the sense of not intervening to suppress them), including intolerant beliefs, until those intolerant beliefs th…

Based on reading your comments for several years, I presume you are very much in favor of protecting employees from various kinds of discrimination(as you should!). Advocating firing Thiel seems to be counter to that. - If YC severed ties w/ Thiel, as people are recommending, should YC also divest itself of companies with founders who support Trump? - Should YC-invested companies fire employees who support Trump? - I…

"Based on reading your comments for several years, I presume you are very much in favor of protecting employees from various kinds of discrimination(as you should!)."

I think it's pretty relevant that Thiel isn't an employee of YC. Saying that they would "fire" Thiel is a complete misnomer - he's a partner that does business with them. I think that's a very different kind of relationship.

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#492

Post by cpach »

dreta wrote: post #352
jaegerpicker wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a simple comparison really: Trump - (paraphased) Muslims are evil, they should be registered and have special restrictions placed on them. He singled out a single religious group. Made them the target of a group of people that are disposed to hating them. It goes against the very spirit of modern western democracy. To many it represents a clear and unforseen threat to our country. Even Bush who was clearly the m…

There’s a major problem with Muslim refugees in Europe right now. My girlfriend used to love visiting Paris, now it’s basically a no-go zone even in daytime. What he’s saying is based on reality, even if it makes you feel all bad inside when you hear it. Even in the US, where the refugee problem doesn’t exist, you still learn after terrorist attacks that, f.e. the family knew, or that the attacker had bomb equipment…

Paris a no-go zone, in daytime? That's laughable.

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#493

Post by ElComradio »

tptacek wrote: post #332
ElComradio wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost nobody will agree with the idea that in an ideal world built upon the "marketplace of ideas" that someone should be constrained from expressing political opinions for fear of losing their employment. In fact this being so is a primary driver of Trump's anti-PC appeal.

Nobody is losing their employment in this discussion. Thiel doesn't even have equity in YC. His part-time partner status is a marketing arrangement, a co-endorsement. All that Sam Altman is being asked to do is to reconsider endorsing Thiel. Meanwhile, all sorts of misconceptions are behind the appeal of Donald Trump. Donald Trump is a monster. I do not think reasonable people are required to change their behavior to…

Fair enough re: employment, but if we shift "employed by" to "do business with" it's still the same discussion.

A theme going on here is a binary state regarding how we should treat individuals and consider their positions. This idea of "endorsing" Thiel means you are supporting all of his political views and not just his business views. That if one supports Trump one is all-in on all of his positions.

For example, many of Trump's supporters are identifying with his economic message. They may find his immigration stance to be distasteful but the overriding concern is the economy, so they are willing to suck it up. Trump's bloc isn't a monolithic group with shared priorities.

Altman's position on this is exactly correct- expressing his disagreement with Thiel but with the maturity to quash the urge to run away from or "punish" Thiel. We would be better off as a society if we all adopted this mindset.

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#494

Post by youforpresident »

ThomPete wrote: post #127

Marcos understanding of this situation is extremely telling for a fundamental problem with many americans relationship with politics. Most only get involved around election. After that their political interest is non existing. It's easy to get lured into the idea that politics is a simple choice between the moral good and the moral bad, that the choice is simple and that there is a one to one relationship between wha…

"Everyone have the right to say and mean". I see a problem here because people do things, perhaps it would be better if they only say or mean something.

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#495

Post by tptacek »

ElComradio wrote: post #493
tptacek wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is losing their employment in this discussion. Thiel doesn't even have equity in YC. His part-time partner status is a marketing arrangement, a co-endorsement. All that Sam Altman is being asked to do is to reconsider endorsing Thiel. Meanwhile, all sorts of misconceptions are behind the appeal of Donald Trump. Donald Trump is a monster. I do not think reasonable people are required to change their behavior to…

Fair enough re: employment, but if we shift "employed by" to "do business with" it's still the same discussion. A theme going on here is a binary state regarding how we should treat individuals and consider their positions. This idea of "endorsing" Thiel means you are supporting all of his political views and not just his business views. That if one supports Trump one is all-in on all of his positions. For example, m…

If we shift "employment" to "do business with", we have formulated an argument that boycotts are unethical. So, no, I don't think that gets us anywhere.

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#496

Post by spraak »

speeder wrote: post #396
spraak wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see you wrote words here but they're not really saying anything.. what is your point then? What really is at stake here? If racism and sexism aren't* just that, what are they? Who is this excluded group you're talking about? > he has some very important points which needs to be addressed and discussed What are those points then? Please, let's discuss them *Edit

I don't live in US, and I think Trump is a terrible person. But if I lived in US, I probably would still vote for him. First, some points of why to avoid voting Hillary and voting in any of the other candidates (including the weaker ones). 1. Hillary should be in jail, specially after the home e-mail server. 2. Hillary foreign policy style caused hundreds of thousands of needless deaths. 3. Hillary want to make that…

LOL for REAL. You say Hilary should be in jail, which you're right, but Trump similarly has criminal accusations against him.

> Trump, despite being a unstable madman ...

REALLY?! How can anything valid proceed from that?

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#497

Post by jshevek »

pif wrote: post #431
ThomPete wrote: post #127

Marcos understanding of this situation is extremely telling for a fundamental problem with many americans relationship with politics. Most only get involved around election. After that their political interest is non existing. It's easy to get lured into the idea that politics is a simple choice between the moral good and the moral bad, that the choice is simple and that there is a one to one relationship between wha…

> Racism is not just racism, sexism is not just sexism. They are just wrong and they have no place in a modern western democracy.

This is true. The debate about Trump is made more complicated by the racism and sexism demonstrated by (those that happen to also be among) the most ardent Trump haters.

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#498

Post by jondubois »

I disagree with the author of this article. If anything, this article just shows how powerful the media is and how it can influence people to have such extreme thoughts about things which they actually know very little about.

Trump is not guilty of sexual harassment - That is hearsay; media propaganda. Yes, he said nasty things, but it doesn't mean anything about his ability to do a good job as a president.

I think he is probably a rotten person, but I think everyone in politics is just as rotten anyway. To pretend that Hillary Clinton is a saint is wrong - Personally, I think that she is every bit as rotten as Trump - But she is really good at hiding/suppressing it.

Most Trump supporters don't want to vote for him because they think he is a nice person (and I'm sure that Thiel doesn't either) - They just think that he is capable of doing a great job as a president and they think that this is more important than his personality.

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#499

Post by fullofit »

fullofit wrote: post #193
tomgp wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By donating millions of $ you cross the line from speech to action.

Why the fuck is it even legal to donate $1.25 million? Thanks Citizens United.

Downvoted by people who believe the amount of speech you can have is proportional to your bank account balance.

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#500

Post by Nadya »

I could write a mirrored copy for "How dare you support a warmongering, nation-selling, unpatriotic woman like Hillary." but these sorts of attacks are pointless in the end. No US-based company should be supporting Hillary. They don't have the best interest of the nation at heart, they have the best interest of their wallets instead.

I'm wondering when the far-left is going to wake up and realize by alienating their fellow countrymen with attacks and namecalling they are creating a larger problem, not solving it. You don't win over people's hearts by calling them bigots and sexists (especially when accusations like that get thrown around because of "manspreading" or "microaggressions").

Both political sides are allowing themselves to be manipulated so heavily by the media, and that there is an increasingly dangerous gap between "us" and "them" mentality going on in the States. I'm actually genuinely concerned for the day of the election. Regardless of who wins, people have fanned the flames so much that I'm glad I live in a small rural area. Regardless of Trump or Hillary I'm expecting riots on the streets of many cities/regions.

I shouldn't be expecting that - and blog posts like this one only fan the flames ever higher.

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