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Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

bloomberg.com

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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#191

Post by novaleaf »

jypepin wrote: post #96
ajmurmann wrote: post #32

I find it astonishing how positive Bloomberg tries to spin this: People earn a wider range of incomes in the U.S., so “workers have an incentive to try harder to move up the job ladder because a promotion is worth more,” said Dora Gicheva -The income range in the US is so large that there are lots of people at the bottom end who have to work multiple jobs. How much does that have to do with the longer work hours, Blo…

It's a very light analysis from me, so might not be fully true, but I live in the US, now in Europe, and in Canada before that. You could also say Canada is kind of in the middle. Well, maybe correlation doesn't imply causation in that case but here is what I can see: - US > Canada > Europe in terms of opportunities, be it starting salary, end-of-career salaries, and everything in the middle such as promotions, perso…

My own analogy is USA and Thailand.

in terms of geopolitical differences, I think the "Protestant work ethic" tradition is a large driver of USA perceptions on work.

Conversely in Thailand, the emphasis on hierarchy and workplace harmony (no critical conversations) disincentives sticking one's head out, including working longer to work on a perceived deadlines.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#192

Post by RandomName2020 »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #172
RandomName2020 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (e.g. Federal government jobs and some companies) but these are frequently viewed as undesirable Federal and government (city, state etc.) jobs (perhaps excluding IT) are some of the most desirable jobs in US, with long waiting lines. Got try get a city job in NYC....

Yes, they are highly desirable to people that are non-ambitious and strongly risk averse, which includes a non-trivial percentage of the population. For a certain kind of person, those jobs are perfect; the pay and opportunity isn't great but the risk and level of effort is also low. I've worked in these organizations before; the people that take these jobs don't want much out of life, just looking to coast. But most…

NASA and Fermilab are also government jobs.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#193

Post by nathan_f77 »

sguav wrote: post #175
nathan_f77 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are your freelancing friends expats, or Italian citizens?

Both. I guess the issue is that freelancing is not a thing here. Those that get into webdev through a company (especially marketing or nice startups) seem to be doing really well, but they are few to my knowledge.

Oh, I see what you mean, you're talking about freelancing for local companies. That's funny, my mindset is all about working remotely for companies in other countries, especially the US. I'm currently living in Thailand, where freelancing for a local company would mean earning something like $10-15 per hour.

I would like to live and work in Italy as a freelancer, but I can only stay for 90 days at a time. Do you know of any ways to stay longer?

EDIT: Wow, I should have done some more research. Italy has a "long-term visa". But more exciting than that, Germany has an actual “self-employment” visa for freelancers. I might start with Germany then.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#194

Post by a_humean »

This report is pretty pointless, and is at best a puff piece for an American audience. American workers are some of the most productive workers in the world, but working hours are not the sole reason. Working hours really do not tell you that much on their own.

In Europe, Greece works the most hours, and yet they are hardly an economic success story. French people work fewer hours than British people, and yet France has better productivity measures. Italy works the fewest hours, but they are stuck in an economic mire. Industrial Era British factory workers worked many more hours than British factory workers today, and yet I'm certain that today's factory workers are much better value. There isn't a meaningful correlation to be found around working hours independent of other factors.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#195

Post by e12e »

ythl wrote: post #174
sguav wrote: post #165

I struggle to digest this article. Considering I'm an Italian who has ever worked 40+ hours a week (non tech jobs got me to 60+ hours/wk...). And then, when I lived in England, everyone seemed to be doing at most 35 hrs/wk. I understand that these are statistics, but I can't really match it to my experience (but, hey, maybe this tells me to complain less and enjoy spare time more!)

Italians have the opposite problem - too much spare time (at least, all at once). When I lived in Italy I was astonished that the entire country could effectively shut down for an entire month (ferragosto). I mean, come on, at least stagger your vacations so that everyone doesn't take leave all at the same time...

The same could probably be said for Norway too. I think it's a good thing, mind. Everyone gets 5 weeks off now, in general. usually 4 weeks in summer (the rest to be used for Easter, Christmas or at employees discretion in agreement with the employer), that matches up with the school holiday. I suppose there'd technically be room to shift those weeks a bit, but then how can you make sure everyone in a household have holidays together, assuming two working parents?

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#196

Post by thebspatrol »

matrix_escape wrote: post #168

I think its a lot more than 25%. In Sweden where I work, people are relaxed at their jobs. Coming in at 8.30 am and leaving at 4.30 pm with a full lunch break in the middle is normal. Taking a couple of coffee breaks or ping pong matches and chatting with collegues is normal. There is casual talk all day long and bosses are also leaving work early to pick up children, spend time with the family and just enjoy their l…

This is pretty standard in the US, especially if you don't work in some MegaCorp cog-in-the-machine type of situation.

I think a good percentage of people working their asses off and working 60 hours a week are people who ARE actually successful. I don't blame them for turning work into a hobby.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#199

Post by abysmallyideal »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #50
webaholic wrote: post #3

How happy are they working that extra 25%? They are richer, sure. But I don't think being rich is an indicator of your overall state. Looking at [1], you can see that people in european countries come out on top of the happiness index. One could argue that working less is actually better for productivity and overall happiness. [1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-23/these-are-...

Leaving aside Wall-street the Tech Bubble where people work grueling hours in the hopes of becoming a millionaire, the rest of the US works grueling hours because they need to in order to eat, pay their rent, etc. Telling someone who is working 40+ hours in order to make ends meet that they need to "work less" is tantamount to telling them to become homeless and destitute.

That is not true. Some tech people go in hoping to be millionaires, but the environment is extremely cut throat, esp with competition like India with billions of people keen on dominating tech, as well as Chinese skill. Many of the tech people end up competing to stay afloat, and to eat the weakest dog in the pack just to stay in that arena.

Silicon Valley and Seattle/Redmond are probably the most cut throat areas you could work in. It gets really nasty there.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#200

Post by fauigerzigerk »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #137
RandomName2020 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's harder to move from a class to another compared to the US. Not true: social mobility in US is lower than in Europe and Canada.

This is only because "social mobility" is in terms of percentiles, which doesn't account for differences in income variance between countries. The US has anomalously high income variance, so large changes in absolute income can equate to relatively small changes in the percentile. To put it another way, if everyone made the same wage, an increase in salary of $1 would check the box for "social mobility" because it wo…

On the other hand, the incentive to rise above your parents' percentile is much less if that next percentile doesn't feel much better.

At the end of the day, the difficulty with these comparisons is that social mobility measured in percentiles may be the same in a country where it is next to impossible to rise above your parents' social class as in a country where it is completely pointless to even want that.

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