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Shame on Y Combinator

marco.org

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Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#461

Post by tptacek »

bbayles wrote: post #455
tptacek wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump supporters believe in a batshit conspiracy theory. That doesn't mean reasonable people should change their behavior to mitigate those concerns.

One concern with this line of argumentation: reasonable people shouldn't have to change their behavior, but rational people might want to. That is, suppose you believe (as I do) that D.T. and his supporters are quite dangerous. If they are using my behavior to gain strength, it behooves me to change my behavior!

Sometimes, perhaps. But not if that change in behavior itself gives support and comfort to bigotry, deception, and authoritarianism, as it would here.

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#462

Post by zobzu »

The people manipulation machine is so well tuned. The internet has failed us.

People think hating trump supporters is the cool thing to do and probably would put their life on the line against him. How crazy is that?

No longer is one even attempting to respect or even research another point of view. No time for that. Don't you realize that the only goal is to divide the people and remove focus from what actually matters?

The whole US politics is now about showing how the other candidate character is the most horrible and any lie is fair game, on any side.

The owner of basically all media wins the war - and thats not exactly surprising either.

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#463

Post by nugget »

bambax wrote: post #388
dreta wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a major problem with Muslim refugees in Europe right now. My girlfriend used to love visiting Paris, now it’s basically a no-go zone even in daytime. What he’s saying is based on reality, even if it makes you feel all bad inside when you hear it. Even in the US, where the refugee problem doesn’t exist, you still learn after terrorist attacks that, f.e. the family knew, or that the attacker had bomb equipment…

> My girlfriend used to love visiting Paris, now it’s basically a no-go zone even in daytime. What are you talking about. I've lived in Paris for 40+ years, there is no special problems. We had terrorists attacks, we may have more, but basically nobody cares much about it or talks about it, and life is the same as it's always been (lots of traffic, lots of people in the subway, weather not great).

Marine Le Pen is polling above 30% in France (in the same type of polls that understated Brexit). It's a stretch to claim that "nobody cares" because clearly there is significant discontent being expressed politically.

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#464

Post by tylersmith »

d7oaks wrote: post #397
ThomPete wrote: post #127

Marcos understanding of this situation is extremely telling for a fundamental problem with many americans relationship with politics. Most only get involved around election. After that their political interest is non existing. It's easy to get lured into the idea that politics is a simple choice between the moral good and the moral bad, that the choice is simple and that there is a one to one relationship between wha…

I disagree. I think Marco’s point, which I strongly agree with, is that donating to Trump goes beyond just supporting a political candidate that you don’t happen to agree with. The fact that Trump has some valid policy ideas is completely besides the point. Amongst other things he is inciting racial and ethnic hatred, undermining trust in American democracy, encouraging violence and legitimising sexual assault. When…

The alternative is just as bad even if she's not as flagrant about being a criminal. Trust in "American Democracy" should be undermined because it's a garbage concept. It's all about whoever gets people like you to ignore their side's crimes and shout about how horrible the other side is.

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#465

Post by calebm »

"Funding Trump, especially at this scale, represents general support of what Trump has said and done." - That's a pretty big logical leap. Would a person who supports Hillary "generally support" flippant top-secret email handling?

Let's be logical: I think we can all agree that a person can support a candidate while not supporting every word they speak or action they take.

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#466

Post by genericpseudo »

tptacek wrote: post #368
bambax wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody denies Sam Altman's right to support Peter Thiel Of course; what upsets people (you included, probably?) is the hypocrisy and rationalization. For his friend, Altman is willing to throw all principles and grand declarations about "no asshole policy" through the window. In a way it's charming; in another way, it's hard to fathom. If anyone on HN said 1 thousandth of what Trump says everyday, they would get ba…

According to Sam Altman, if Peter Thiel said some of what Trump said, they'd stop endorsing him. I could not be more baffled by this stance: someone who speaks like Donald Trump is too toxic to affiliate with YC, but someone who diligently works to make Donald Trump President of the United States is not.

This is the end consequence of tremendous cowardice from a lot of people over a long time, starting with the owners and administrators of Hacker News.

HN has – through inaction – smirkingly enabled alt-right/NRx/GamerGaters to parody-thru-libel liberal positions on equality for a long time; supporting Peter Thiel is in the same vein. That's made Hacker News racist, sexist, and (worst of all for this crowd's self-image), stupid.

For a bunch of "disruptors", they're blind to the systemic effects of that set of decisions to the point of parody. Well, the only conclusion to be drawn: the Y Combinator partners (and the companies they fund) don't care sufficiently about society to be people I want to work with. Makes my decisions easier!

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#467

Post by tlogan »

ThomPete wrote: post #127

Marcos understanding of this situation is extremely telling for a fundamental problem with many americans relationship with politics. Most only get involved around election. After that their political interest is non existing. It's easy to get lured into the idea that politics is a simple choice between the moral good and the moral bad, that the choice is simple and that there is a one to one relationship between wha…

The problem is: Trump supporters just cannot comprehend how non-white people and immigrants are terrified and scared of Trump.

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#468

Post by fsloth »

bbctol wrote: post #186
_hao wrote: post #118

You Americans (at least I think the majority of you are Americans) are getting quite ridiculous arguing over this. Supporting a political candidate is a personal choice, one that is given to every eligible individual in a democratic state. Calling for someone to be fired or sever ties with them over political choice is retarded and counter-productive.

What? People get fired over personal choices all the time. If I leered at women at the office, then told them it was fine because they secretly liked it, I'd be out in no time. It's a personal choice to do that, and to support a candidate who does the same, but the company can absolutely take your choices into account when figuring out who isn't needed.

There is a difference between having private non-conforming opinions and openly harassing colleagues. Only the latter is an obvious lack of virtue.

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#469

Post by totony »

Classic american politics: shame people on their political views. Don't argue, you'd risk understanding differing views. Better off cutting all ties with them and remain in your idiotic ignorance.

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#470

Post by genericpseudo »

civilian wrote: post #190
tomgp wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. This exactly the kind of sophistry that Marco refutes. Political positions are moral positions, to believe otherwise is hopelessly naive >in a democracy everyone have the right to say and mean what they want without having to fear the repercussions No, that's not what free speech is. You have the right to say what you want but you must accept the consequences.

Political positions are not moral positions. There's more than one way to accomplish a goal, and even if you share goals, it might be that you just think that the priority of these goals are different. I think the best way to increase the American quality of life is to allow more choices, more trade, and reduce taxation. This gets me branded as being "anti-poor". I want the same thing as you, I just think there's dif…

All positions on anything at all are moral positions; including your willingness to compromise to achieve goals.
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