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Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

bloomberg.com

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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#131

Post by sharemywin »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #50
webaholic wrote: post #3

How happy are they working that extra 25%? They are richer, sure. But I don't think being rich is an indicator of your overall state. Looking at [1], you can see that people in european countries come out on top of the happiness index. One could argue that working less is actually better for productivity and overall happiness. [1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-23/these-are-...

Leaving aside Wall-street the Tech Bubble where people work grueling hours in the hopes of becoming a millionaire, the rest of the US works grueling hours because they need to in order to eat, pay their rent, etc. Telling someone who is working 40+ hours in order to make ends meet that they need to "work less" is tantamount to telling them to become homeless and destitute.

The point to a more progressive tax system. If the goal is to maximize a number(GPD) then a less progressive tax system makes sense. If the goal is to maximize "total human happiness"(could use a better term here I know) you need a more progressive tax system.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#132

Post by Spooky23 »

RandomName2020 wrote: post #103
jypepin wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very light analysis from me, so might not be fully true, but I live in the US, now in Europe, and in Canada before that. You could also say Canada is kind of in the middle. Well, maybe correlation doesn't imply causation in that case but here is what I can see: - US > Canada > Europe in terms of opportunities, be it starting salary, end-of-career salaries, and everything in the middle such as promotions, perso…

> it's harder to move from a class to another compared to the US. Not true: social mobility in US is lower than in Europe and Canada.

There's at least two Americas.

If you are born middle class or with an intact family structure or immigrate, opportunity is unlimited. If you're born here poor/without a family structure, or were born in the wrong place, you're stuck in a feudal-like system.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#133

Post by ryandrake »

friendlygrammar wrote: post #107
coldtea wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How happy are they working that extra 25%? They are richer, sure. But I don't think being rich is an indicator of your overall state. They aren't that richer either -- if anything the majority is less rich in standard of living than most western European and nordic countries. Getting some more money in your salary is not worth much if you have to give most of it to medical coverage and basic services.

GDP per capita in the US is more than 25% greater than Europe.

Which has what to do with standard of living?

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#134

Post by vlehto »

ajmurmann wrote: post #32

I find it astonishing how positive Bloomberg tries to spin this: People earn a wider range of incomes in the U.S., so “workers have an incentive to try harder to move up the job ladder because a promotion is worth more,” said Dora Gicheva -The income range in the US is so large that there are lots of people at the bottom end who have to work multiple jobs. How much does that have to do with the longer work hours, Blo…

Here in Finland there has been recent "boom" of pensioners getting part time jobs.

They get something to do and bit of extra money. There is very little stress or risk as they can always fall back on pension. The only weird thing is that this has not happened sooner, as there is very "universal basic income" -like situation going on. It probably has something to do with overall elderly health improvements. And social perception that pensioners should be lightly sedated stay-at-home grandparents.

"Pension discouraging people from working" is at least partially load of bullshit.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#135

Post by friendlygrammar »

ryandrake wrote: post #133
friendlygrammar wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDP per capita in the US is more than 25% greater than Europe.

Which has what to do with standard of living?

Actually, standard of living is pretty heavily tied with gdp per capita, but I'm pretty sure we are talking about which country is richer not standard of living.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#136

Post by drakonandor »

knz wrote: post #106
untog wrote: post #9

I've worked in both Europe and the US, and in my opinion, US workers are far worse off for it. You earn more money in the US, you can advance faster, but you have next-to-no vacation time (and even when you do, you're still often expected to be reachable by e-mail), maternity/paternity leave is pitiful, and you have to pay large health insurance premiums, amongst other things. I know that isn't the case for everyone,…

> and you have to pay large health insurance premiums This part still bothers me after 10 years in the US. Health insurance might as well be a tax if you have a family or any ongoing health issues. Hearing people say "I don't support universal health care because my taxes would go up" drives me insane. If the proposition was higher taxes but less overall money spent on healthcare then it's a net gain for you. Of cour…

> If the proposition was higher taxes but less overall money spent on healthcare then it's a net gain for you.

Sure it would cost less, but then I'd be on the same insurance as everyone else. That means worse quality of care for those of us who currently have something other than Medicare.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#137

Post by jandrewrogers »

RandomName2020 wrote: post #103
jypepin wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very light analysis from me, so might not be fully true, but I live in the US, now in Europe, and in Canada before that. You could also say Canada is kind of in the middle. Well, maybe correlation doesn't imply causation in that case but here is what I can see: - US > Canada > Europe in terms of opportunities, be it starting salary, end-of-career salaries, and everything in the middle such as promotions, perso…

> it's harder to move from a class to another compared to the US. Not true: social mobility in US is lower than in Europe and Canada.

This is only because "social mobility" is in terms of percentiles, which doesn't account for differences in income variance between countries. The US has anomalously high income variance, so large changes in absolute income can equate to relatively small changes in the percentile.

To put it another way, if everyone made the same wage, an increase in salary of $1 would check the box for "social mobility" because it would move you into the top percentile.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#138

Post by pc86 »

coldtea wrote: post #102
webaholic wrote: post #3

How happy are they working that extra 25%? They are richer, sure. But I don't think being rich is an indicator of your overall state. Looking at [1], you can see that people in european countries come out on top of the happiness index. One could argue that working less is actually better for productivity and overall happiness. [1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-23/these-are-...

> How happy are they working that extra 25%? They are richer, sure. But I don't think being rich is an indicator of your overall state. They aren't that richer either -- if anything the majority is less rich in standard of living than most western European and nordic countries. Getting some more money in your salary is not worth much if you have to give most of it to medical coverage and basic services.

> the majority is less rich in standard of living than most western European and nordic countries

Blatantly false (see the other comment re: GDP). With a few exceptions[0], the US is very close to the top in terms of overall standard of living.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#139

Post by jacquesm »

deanCommie wrote: post #117
jypepin wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very light analysis from me, so might not be fully true, but I live in the US, now in Europe, and in Canada before that. You could also say Canada is kind of in the middle. Well, maybe correlation doesn't imply causation in that case but here is what I can see: - US > Canada > Europe in terms of opportunities, be it starting salary, end-of-career salaries, and everything in the middle such as promotions, perso…

Completely agreed having lived and worked in all 3. Canada is the sweet spot.

If you're well educated. If you're not then you'll find yourself working much harder in Canada to stay afloat than in Europe.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#140

Post by kilon »

USA problems are well known for decades now

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM

A glowing example of how a huge economy can also be a terrible economy . That 25% is only the tip of the iceberg.

If Russia is the fall of communism , USA is the fall of capitalism. Two extremely stupid economic and political models.

Is it a coincidence that both countries have the most rich in the world and a terrible track record on wealth and income equality, workers and human rights ?

Nope

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